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Transfer Rumours The Rumour Mill, summer 2021

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by Walsh.i.am, Feb 26, 2021.

  1. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    I reckon we'll break it more than once.
     
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  2. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    • Good few solid bids already made for other NCFC players.
    If that's true, and it continues, the time could come when many supporters feel that we've ceased to be a football club and are merely developing players to turn a profit down the line. I hope it doesn't come to that, but supporters need to identify with players in the team rather than seeing them as a commodity to make a profit from. Emi has worked hard over 3 years to serve the club and develop his own skills to get this chance to move on. The same could be said of Jamal Lewis and Ben Godfrey and others leaving recently but if it becomes a continuous throughput of players a kind of alienation could set in. I hope that doesn't happen, but if it did the total commercialisation of football would have arrived.
     
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  3. Hairy Mary Quite Canary

    Hairy Mary Quite Canary Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the club pretend it's any different to what you describe. We've been a sell-to-survive club since I can remember. We've just got to enjoy the periods when these developing players are hitting their peaks with us. Three years of Emi is a good innings to be fair. If we assume we've got to sell at least one of the family jewels each season in order to make ends meet (but still remain competitive) then i've no issue with that. It just seems a little harsh this season due to the fact that several players stood out and therefore we've attracted more interest than the usual single marquee player leaving. I trust Webber to keep us moving forward.
     
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  4. Golden Eadie 2

    Golden Eadie 2 Well-Known Member

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    I have just seen a report in "football transfer tavern" that says the Buendia fee was agreed "upfront" so looks like we will get all it very soon.
     
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  5. Oxcanary

    Oxcanary Well-Known Member

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    Just been watching a YouTube video of Pereira. Lots of turns, good passes and ghosting past people and then the excerpt finishes and moves on. Now it could be misadventure from West Brom strikers or that the ball from him ends up in row Z - Redmond style. Watching the Emi video shows the ball in the net a fair few times!
     
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  6. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    I think everyone will accept Max Aarons also moving on, but having been told time and again by SW that we don't actually need to sell anyone this summer, if it goes beyond that I predict serious unrest among the broader fan base. Even if it stops at Max and Emi, as I posted some while ago, anyone who thinks relegation next May will just be a matter of "same again" -- immediate promotion back to the EPL with a side even better equipped than before -- is, IMO, seriously deluded. First time round, people (fans, staff, players, prospective signings) will buy the idea that it's all part of the plan (we didn't risk bankrupting the club, we've kept our best players, we've kept the manager, we'll have more money, it'll be different next time). But what if it isn't different next time; what if, next summer, we are in the self same position as last summer? Emi's sale should make people start taking that question seriously.
     
    #506
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  7. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    There's no issue with selling one star player; maybe even, occasionally, two star players. But if it becomes a matter of, in effect, facing the season ahead with a new team rather than just a new player slotting into an established, otherwise stable, team, then there definitely is an issue.
     
    #507
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  8. Hairy Mary Quite Canary

    Hairy Mary Quite Canary Well-Known Member

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    Bit early to be talking about fielding a "new team" after selling one player (albeit a good'un).
     
    #508
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  9. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I agree Robbie and it's the potential disruption of the squad which concerns me as well. DF's system requires all of the players responding to the movement of others. As one area is vacated another player needs to move into that space. That isn't picked up quickly and Buendia and Aarons are key players in that sense. It took time for Gibson and Quintilla to adjust to the tactics after the departure of Godfrey and Lewis, and then Giannoulis had a similar adjustment after joining midseason and that will be true of new players coming in now.

    The more players leaving, the greater is the disruption. Getting Skipp back would help a lot but losing him would be a setback. Sørensen has had little opportunity to get game time in that position and a new player would find it even more difficult to slot in straight away. That adjustment period contributes to stuttering early season performances as we've seen in recent seasons.
     
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  10. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    Reports state that Emi is on £75 k a week at Villa .

    He signed a deal in 2019 for €1m a year which equates to about £17k a week .
     
    #510

  11. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    There's always disruption in football, whether it be through sales, injuries, squad rotation, illness, change of staff, whether you're playing in front of a crowd or not etc, etc. The sale of a few players should not cause significant disruption and that disruption can be limited by signing players that already fit our system. If we took that view when we let Maddison go to replace him by a 1.5m player playing in the lower Spanish league, then where would be now ? Same with replacing Godfrey with Gibson. Sorensen has been at he club more than long enough to be able to slot easily into Skipp's, whether he's as good remains to be seen. I would go as far to say that some upheaval is more likely to be a positive than a negative.

    As a club under SW's model we've improved more than at any other time in our modern history.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
  12. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Interesting argument canario but I'm not convinced that change is always a positive. Maddison leaving was a necessity, whereas SW keeps telling us that 'we don't have to sell'. I can see the gentlemen' agreements with Emi and Max and am resigned to them leaving. What concerns me is how weak we could be on the right side going into the PL - even more so if Skipp doesn't return. Yes, we could sign Pereira perhaps (though I'm not sure we can afford him), but we'd still need quality replacements for Aarons and Skipp and they won't come cheap. That won't leave much for the striker, AM, CB, DM and other strengthening. This is the moment SW has to get it all right if we aren't to have another miserable season in the PL. If he manages it and we survive, or are competitive at least, then great. If not, our future will look more like a ceiling than a long term development. Let's hope he gets it right.
     
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  13. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    Buendia was our creative spark so important that we rarely lose with him in the side (at Championship level at least )

    At the end of the day pro football players have an average of about 10 years to make money between 20 and 30 .

    If he can get 4 or 5 times as much money buy signing for Villa and their billionaire owner is chucking money about on good team mates then you can't refuse him of the opportunity.

    He helped us win 2 promotions and brought 30m plus into our club we have given him a chance to shine in an outstanding team.

    Zero complaints here
     
    #513
  14. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    The window hasn't opened yet. Every time we've sold our supposedly irreplaceable players we've ended up with a stronger team / squad as a result. We didn't have to sell Buendia we could have kept him until the end of his contract when he could have signed on a free and how much disruption would have been caused by having an unhappy player in the dressing room. What message would keeping him against his will, when we had a fair offer for him, do for our ability to attract developing players in the future or indeed on those already in the squad ? Did we really want to cut off our nose to spite our face. Apparently he quadrupled his wages going to Villa. Is this the moment SW has to get right ? So if we get relegated are we saying SW has to go. So far our model has worked. What other models are there out there that guarantee what we nearly all want to achieve, which is to become an established PL club. Personally I'm happy to remain a top 26 club for a few more years if that's what it takes. Some fans (not you) need to get real.
     
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  15. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I'm not complaining about either Emi or Max leaving, canario, it was the earlier reference to lots of offers for our players. That may be exaggerated or refer to loan requests for younger players which would be fine. If it means selling more first team players and gambling on cheaper new players to try to plug the gaps then I'd be more concerned. SW has had some good successes in the transfer market but he's also had a fair number of failures as well. That's the element of risk I'd feel uncomfortable with going into a PL season. We can't afford another crop of new players like Amadou, Roberts and Drmic this time around. Our long term development effectively stood still that season and we were punished for it.
     
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  16. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    That's great that we're getting lots of offers for our players, we can't limit the amount of offers we get, but it doesn't mean we're going to sell. Wouldn't it be more concerning if we weren't getting offers. As you say may be offers for younger players to go out on loan. Maybe a case of letting other clubs think we're getting more offers for the likes of Aarons than we thereby encouraging more / higher offers. Did they say whether or not we'd made offers for players ?

    No one is going to get every call right, when your looking for gems you're not always going to find them.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
  17. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    This was the original 'usually reliable ITK' post from DHCanary. No mention of any bids from us.
     
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  18. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, Hairy, at this juncture the "talking" is hypothetical; SW has said we don't need to sell and won't sell if it isn't in the interests of all parties. Sounds simple; however many bids come in for the likes of Cantwell, Pukki, Krul etc., all it needs is for SW to say No! But it's actually not that simple is it? What if a bid comes in that's clearly in, say, Cantwell's interest? Or a bid that represents a huge, late-in-career payday opportunity for Pukki? What if Emi isn't the only player to have secured "a gentlemen's agreement" last autumn?
    Secondly, and relating to my post above about the implications of a repeat relegation next May, it might be possible now to convince players for whom "solid bids" have come that it's in their interest to give us another season but, unless we survive this coming season, that's not going to be a repeatable line of argument next summer. Problems deferred are not problems averted. Hence, as I see it, we are at a point where finishing 17th or better next season becomes absolutely vital.
     
    #518
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  19. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    A ceiling is OK as long as it's made of glass and nobody realises it's there. But once heads start getting bruised bumping into it ...........
     
    #519
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  20. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    I don't subscribe to this at all I'm afraid.

    All this "what if" catastrophising is just pointless speculation about stuff we don't and won't know.

    We have the whip hand with Cantwell, Pukki etc. Even more than we did at the beginning of last season when Cantwell sulked. And so if a bid comes in which really sounds great for them, OK fine, but sorry spurious other club you need to meet our valuation too thanks very much. But I don't understand the point of this debate? This is true every. single. transfer window. We are not Manchester City. The only times it would not be true, actually, were if we risked going bust - e.g. with the Maddison sale. Then I would agree it's panic stations, but the very point of the current club strategy is to avoid getting in that scenario again, so realistically we have to face the fact that at each transfer window, we could "lose" four or five of our best players - again, true of most other clubs bar two or three. Look at Liverpool and Wijnaldum. So what? At least we get paid. And footballers rarely spend more than four years at any given club anyway, they age - Pukki's star will wane and probably quite soon. Squads change, players leave and arrive. The club and fans are the permanent features.

    As for relegation next season, that sounds like nonsense to me. I don't know many fans of our football club that are not realistic: we are odds on to get relegated next season too. And if we get promoted again, we will be. Even if we stay up, we will continue to be amongst the favourites for relegation. Is it more of a problem if we get relegated next season than two seasons ago? Absolutely not. We got promoted back then unexpectedly. We banked the money, it let us survive Covid and invest in the squad. We got lucky we didn't lose more players due to Covid. If anything, we will be in a substantially better position at the end of this season if we get relegated compared to our last premier league campaign, because of all the money which has gone into the Academy and facilities, the extra budget, more players with Premier League experience, more opportunities to invest, more chances for youngsters. Players will know that they can come to us and have a good season in the Championship, with a very realistic chance to cut their teeth in the Premier League and make a move to a more permanent fixture in that division. And after all, being relegated? Hey, that's part of English football for all but six clubs. We, of all clubs, should know that... And let's face it, it's bang in line with the club's stated ambition of being the top 26 clubs in the country. Relegation next season would not be a disaster. It would be par for the course. We go again.

    Unless and until we get some sort of financial donor OR we have a season we over-perform because something clicks, you're kidding yourself if you think relegation is a disaster. It's the natural order of things. And we will get promoted again before long.

    OTBC
     
    #520

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