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Coronavirus: Please use this thread for all COVID19 talk!

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by - Doing The Lambert Walk, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. Saints Fan4Life

    Saints Fan4Life Well-Known Member

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    Are people still worried about fully vaccinated people being at risk of illness from covid, having been infected by someone non-vaccinated? <laugh>

    If you're fully vaccinated, what are you worrying about? Those who aren't, know the risks and accept them.
     
    #7921
  2. Libby

    Libby 9-0

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    I honestly can't believe you think they're truly comparable. Me not having a second jab has killed people? ****ing brainwashed tramp.

    Do us a favour and go and lob yourself on some traintracks.
     
    #7922
  3. Libby

    Libby 9-0

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    **** this I'm out. I need to go and console my friend who doesn't know how to break the news to her kids.

    I'll be sure to tell her that some **** on the internet said it's ****ing sound though, cos old people or something.
     
    #7923
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  4. VocalMinority

    VocalMinority Well-Known Member

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    Look, I'm sorry you've had a loss. I shouldnt have called you a **** even if i was just copying you.

    But people not getting the vaccine WILL kill people. If it wasnt for vaccines (and the lockdown) you would be just as likely to know somebody who died of coronavirus as cancer, in the same age groups, they are very comparable. And you would have been on the complete opposite side of this argument had she died from the virus.
     
    #7924
  5. Saints Fan4Life

    Saints Fan4Life Well-Known Member

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    It really won't. As I said above, if someone is fully vaccinated, what's the issue? If they get infected by someone, they're already highly likely protected from serious illness. If someone is fully vaccinated, why should it matter or worry them if they come into contact with someone who hasn't been vaccinated?

    Yes we need a majority vaccinated for the old herd immunity, preferably the weak, old and vulnerable. But I don't think everyone needs it.
     
    #7925
  6. Saints Fan4Life

    Saints Fan4Life Well-Known Member

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    These figures are shocking. We cannot continue living in fear like this. The country is already ****ed, mentally, health and financially.
     
    #7926
  7. VocalMinority

    VocalMinority Well-Known Member

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    Because it can still kill somebody who's fully vaccinated.

    There's loads of issues with this maths but i'll use it for simplicity.

    1 person vaccinated by himself with the AstraZeneca is 66% protected if he comes in contact with somebody with the virus
    if the person who had the virus was vaccinated, then its a 66% chance he never got the virus and would not pass it along.

    So they only have a 12% chance of catching it rather than 34% from that person. And that increases even more if the person who infected the first person was also vaccinated.

    Dont quote that maths, its way off, and being vaccinated reduced the chance of you dying even if you're infected, but I'm just trying to explain the logic.


    At the end of the day its best not to think about it individually but as a population. what the government are trying to do is stop it growing exponentially.


    An R number of 3 means on average an infected person infects 3 people. (chose that number because its easy to show)

    so
    1 person, infects 3 people, infects 9 people, infects 27 people, infects 81 people. 121 people infected

    give a 66% vaccine to those people and

    1 person, infects 1 person, infects 1 person infects 1 person, infects 1 person. 5 people infected.

    lets say only half of people get vaccinated so the R number is 2.

    1 person, infects 2 people, infects 4 people, infects 8 people, infects 16 people. 31 people infected.


    still a massive difference
    And when you're on a scale of thousands the numbers get big really quickly.



    So the idea is actually to get that R number below 1. once its below 1 then vaccines and lockdowns aren't as important, we just need enough of them to keep it below that number.

    As long as its above one, then people not getting vaccinated will kill others, vaccinated or not. Maybe not you personally, but as a population. As a population, its a statistical certainty that people who aren't vaccinated are killing people who are because they didn't get vaccinated.





    There is certainly an argument as to whether the economic and mental health damage is greater than the cost of lives from letting the virus spread through the population now we are mostly vaccinated where the death toll will be lower than under the original herd immunity scheme. But getting vaccinated 100% saves lives.
     
    #7927
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  8. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    #7928
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  9. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    Common sense and logic goes nowhere with the covidiot conspiration antivaxxers.
     
    #7929
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  10. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    I think the latter is the main reason why the restrictions cannot end. Whilst the death and hospitalisations are on a lower scale than the second wave, the rate of infection is much steeper and the effectiveness of the vaccine is diminished. The logic behind not lifting restrictions is that if left unfettered and we are to rely on the vaccines, the vaccine will quickly mutate in to something that we will have no ability to control.

    I would have to say that the government has made some massive mistakes within the two months and has led the population to become hugely complacent. Travel to and from India should have been prohibited and even the Sunday telegraph castigated the government for allowing a three-day delay in shutting travel down between the two countries. If anyone watched the interview with the scientist of Channel Four news on Wednesday it was interesting to hear calls for restrictions in the UK not only to be delayed but that the measures should be more restrictive and restored to the stricter levels of the spring. In addition, these measures should have been implemented at least two weeks ago. I believe that the worst case scenario with this current wave is that the total number of infections will be about 20% greater than in the second wave. Whilst the number of hospital omissions and deaths may have been reduced by the vaccines, the issue is that the risk for further and more dangerous mutation is now substantially greater. We do not want to see a replication of what has happened in India in the UK nut that is the potential and why talk of limiting restrictions should not be entertained. Basically, what Boris has done is put the whole of Europe at risk of the Indian variant because he has not managed this in the UK. It is a replication of the same issue he caused with the Kent variant. The roll out of the vaccine has been hugely impressive but the government has learned nothing about restricting the transmission of Covid.

    The other thing I think that the government has got wrong is letting the perception of "Freedom Day" get traction amongst both the population and the press. This is just a repeat of the fiasco over Christmas. if anyone else has read some of the articles in journals such as "Nature" they will be aware that there will never actually be a "Freedom Day." This is something we will now have to live with and the waves associated with new variants will mean lockdowns will be a way of life from now on. It is expected that improvements in medication and the reduced effectiveness of the virus itself will mean these outbreaks will become less and less virulent but the timescale for this that I read recently was fifty years and not a matter of months.
     
    #7930
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  11. Saints Fan4Life

    Saints Fan4Life Well-Known Member

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    Don't be so ignorant and lump everyone into the same covidiot, anti-vax group.
     
    #7931
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  12. Saints Fan4Life

    Saints Fan4Life Well-Known Member

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    You enjoy your restrictions filled life forever more then.

    Life is too short to worry about restrictions harming my quality and enjoyment of life. We've already made too many sacrifices, only for our beloved government to constantly move the goalposts. I've had enough.
     
    #7932
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  13. Saints Fan4Life

    Saints Fan4Life Well-Known Member

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    I genueinly think those pleading and begging for more or continuing restrictions are vastly underestimating the crisis to come. We are about to enter a crisis far bigger than covid. Will all this be worth it when that crisis shows on the horizon? Doubt it.

    From health issues and huge pressure on the nhs, to mental health problems, to huge job losses, business closures and financial crisises. It is imperative we have to get on with our normal life soon.
     
    #7933
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  14. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    #7934
  15. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    Touched a nerve did I? Default to insult your MO. Am I lumping everyone into the covidiot conspiraloon antivaxx group with my post? To draw that conclusion may give people the impression you're the ignorant one. No offense intended.
     
    #7935
  16. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    Well said. I got the 1st jab, and waiting for the 2nd one, but I didn’t want to get it, for many reasons.

    Does that make me a Covidiot?

    It seems the majority who think like this are the much older generation, whilst being more affected by Covid if they catch it, have already live 90% of their lives (or close to it).

    I wonder how much they would have fallen into place had this happened in the 60s or 70s etc.
     
    #7936
  17. Saints Fan4Life

    Saints Fan4Life Well-Known Member

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    You replied to a quote that was aimed at me asking about vaccinations, so yes that was how it come across.

    If that wasn't your intention, fair enough, we move on.
     
    #7937
  18. Saints Fan4Life

    Saints Fan4Life Well-Known Member

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    The older generation who also won't have to suffer for the rest of their lives (or certainly not as long as the younger generations) as the shock waves from the pandemic ripple through the decades to come.

    The impact of this is going to impact my life, and others, for decades.
     
    #7938
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  19. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    And the reality is those already retired or close to it are far less affected by mental health, job losses, business closures etc.

    My dad in his mid 70s has a main worry the interest rate should be far higher so his pension can grow more, he couldn’t give a **** about anything else.

    I see far too much of what I call ‘entitlement’ by certain posters/generation(s).
     
    #7939
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  20. Saints Fan4Life

    Saints Fan4Life Well-Known Member

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    <applause><applause>

    Well said.
     
    #7940

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