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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October)

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    perfect1.jpg

    Good Morning. It's Wednesday 20th October, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road


    Is Leeds small squad a problem


    Leeds showed last term that when they have a fit squad, and everyone is firing on all cylinders, they are a formidable source; but with players dropping like flies, and the rest of the squad struggling for form, Bielsa's options are very limited. The Whites have already utilised 22 players this season, one less than they used for the entire 20-21 campaign. According to Phil Hay, these are unprecedented times for the Whites:-

    "Bielsa’s small squad worked for him for so long because, at the furthest reaches of it, form was consistently intact. He could swap players with minimal ill effect and without the impression that anyone was sorely missed. Phillips was the exception but even with him in and out from time to time, Leeds were play-off semi-finalists in season one, Championship winners in season two and ninth in the Premier League in season three".

    "It is wrong to say that Bielsa’s policy on numbers has been a mistake — 36 months of results show otherwise — but this is the first time he has hit the perfect storm of injuries compounding a concerted loss of form (which is not limited to Tyler Roberts or Rodrigo, whose displays have attracted most criticism). The remarkable reliability of performances was what always stopped injuries biting so hard".

    "In the Premier League last season, it was more difficult for Bielsa to avoid enforced rotation. As hard as he pushed his players in the Championship, he was able to name an unchanged line-up in 17 games in both second-tier campaigns — Leeds were injury-free infrequently but there was a good level of resilience under the pressure of the 46-game schedule and Bielsa’s training routine".

    "The Premier League has been more taxing. Bielsa’s team was unchanged 10 times last season — roughly one in four, even though he used the fewest number of players in the league (just 23 across the campaign). He has not been able to name an unchanged line-up at all this season and already, he has been forced to call on 22 players. COVID-19 is interfering but Leeds look more like they should at the end of a season than at the start of it. This is, after all, a group that finished the 2020-21 season as if they wanted it to continue forever".

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    Meslier leading the way

    Early statistics for the season show that Leeds shot stopper Illan Meslier is leading the Premiership for most saves made this season. On average, the 21yo Frenchman makes 3.9 saves per game, 0.5 more than any other keeper. His home form is particularly good, it jumps up to 4.3; 2.8 of the saves made from inside his penalty area!

    statleeds.jpg

    Equally, Meslier's defence are not too shoddy either. Their collective contribution puts them in the top three.

    leedsstats2.jpg

    So, where do Leeds let themselves down? Only Newcastle and Norwich have a leakier defence! Leeds worse discipline was clearances. Only Manchester City performed let clearances than Leeds, but much of that has to do with the way they play. Whilst Guardiola has a Billion pound squad that can play themselves out of trouble, Leeds do not, especially when confidence is low, and you're not playing to capacity. Are there times you'd like to see our defence hoof the ball into no man's land?

    leedsstats3.jpg

    Is Bamford strong enough to carry Leeds to Premier League safety

    After a dominant start to his Premiership career, much was expected from Patrick Bamford this season. The 28yo played an instrumental part in achieving a top half finish in Leeds return to the top flight after 16 years. Unfortunately, he has not received the same amount of service as last term, and his recent injury has not helped matters.

    Leeds netted 62 times last season, with Bamford contributing 17. So far this season, Leeds have scored 7, and are on course to record 35 come May. Whilst we don't know the extent of Bamford's injury, are we going to be overly reliant on Raphinha coming up with the goods or would you expect Bamford to net at least 15 by the end of the season?

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    #1
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  2. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Morning all :emoticon-0148-yes:

    Was out of action most of yesterday so been reading up on yesterdays breakfast debate. The spat/disagreement on form between Jammy and Forza was interesting and not wanting to get involved I thought I would ask a question: we have had 2 good penalty shouts turned down this season, the one Jammy didnt mention was Newcastle, nailed on and ignored. Both those games would have meant grabbing a 2nd goal and easing the nerves. Probably going on to score a few more as Newcastle we should have been 9 up at half time. Not getting the pen and nerves meant we drew. My question is if those pens had been given would our seasons nervous form have been better?
     
    #2
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  3. SIDDAS

    SIDDAS Well-Known Member

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    Meslier is a top keeper but still has a lot to learn I'm happy with him and for someone so young doing what he does can only mean he will get better. The problem which we will have is keeping him.
    Bamford let's face we have missed him. he's not just a striker he's a team player, he does a lot for this team and we have missed him being in the side. Someone said in a earlier post with Bamford getting injured it gave Rodrigo a go and we all deep down wanted to see what he can do. but as always Bielsa was right Bamford starts every time on what we have seen so far.
    It's a time the whole fanbase now need to get behind the team it's a very important month we don't want to give the lads that extra pressure. they all read social media they know they played shyte Saturday give them time to respond to it before we go off on one.
    We haven't been good enough this season hands up but we have had our fair share of injuries what we need is a settled side for a few games.
    Im going to this Wolves one whoop whoop
     
    #3
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  4. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    Morning all.

    With the multitude of fixture changes announced, many on here will now need to rearrange those essential pre xmas shopping trips with the wife.

    Time to get your priorities right gentlemen, although I'm still expecting plenty of " what's the score as I've been queuing to get into Crown Point for the last 3 hours " comments as her who must be obeyed put's her foot down and you're accused of putting the mighty whites ahead of the wonderful family xmas she's been planning whilst you've been down the pub all summer <laugh>

    Chins up boys <ok>
     
    #4
  5. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    The depth of our squad is fine as it has served Bielsa well all his career, but I bet he has never seen 50% injured as he has done this season and even last week down by 30%. In this league which is the best in the world you cannot sustain that amount of absentees UNLESS you have top quality replacements, we dont and square peg it and backfill the bench with kids.

    The small squad and absentee situation is now also hurting the U23s as they havent won any of the last 4 games, due to team captain Cresswell not playing or doing 45 mins, same with leagues best player Joffy and The same with Summerville, McKinstry even the 17yo Hjelde and Greenwood. All key players.

    maybe its a freak but we also had 3 of our top new signing last season all missing half the season, but we had enough to cover as it was only 3 but having 9 out and then 6 is hurting
     
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  6. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    Pretty pointless me banging the same drum again, but...

    We definitely deserved something from the West Ham game and you're 100% right about that penalty at Newcastle.
     
    #6
  7. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    Don’t worry, there’ll be nothing in the shops anyway <ok>
     
    #7
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  8. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Lots of media speculation about Bogusz coming back in January. I have mentioned this before but he has a funny old contract set up which I wasn't aware of. His contract ends 2023 as it was increased before his last loan to Ibiza. He was told by Bielsa that if he wanted to go back to Poland as Legia Warsaw wanted him. Bielsa told he could go but not on loan he would be sold, because loaning to LW would not mean coming back to the 1st team at Leeds. He also explained he wanted him to play for Ibiza as he thought the step up back to Leeds was possible if he did well in Spain. LW play champions league but not the quality to play for Leeds, whereas at Ibiza level there is a way back if he succeeds. So far in 7 games he has score 3 gials and 2 assists. He has won goal of the month twice and is by far the player of the year in the league. Last week Ibiza were beaten 2-0 but again Bogusz was man of the match. One to watch?
     
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  9. hemase

    hemase Well-Known Member

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    Morning all,

    As the famous Al Pacino movie quite good, football is a game of inches. So far this season those inches have gone against us.

    As stated the penalty shouts, the last minute loser to West ham. Look at last season, we lost twice to Wolves when those inches definitely went in their favour and the Bamford offside at palace.

    To kick on this season we need to things to happen.

    1- get all or nearly all of our best players fit and on the pitch at the same time. Not rocket science but something we have been unable to do so far.

    2- get the rub of the green. Turn those inches to our favour.
     
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  10. hemase

    hemase Well-Known Member

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    I know most will disagree but after Phillips I believe that Bamford is our next most important player.

    We miss the work he brings to the team. Rodrigo just doesn't do the same as Lord B with this being most obvious on Saturday.
    I don't think Southampton would have been able to press us out the game as they did with him out there.

    His work rate really helps James, Harrison & Raphinia. I can't count the number of times his winning the ball and it gets played out wide to them and we catch teams on the counter.

    Rodrigo may be a better finisher but Bamford is better all round.
     
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  11. xbpod

    xbpod Well-Known Member

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    But to balance that out our only win of season shouldn't have been as Watford had a perfectly good goal disallowed.
     
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  12. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    Don’t worry, there’ll be nothing in the shops anyway <ok>
     
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  13. DirtyLeeds

    DirtyLeeds Well-Known Member

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    You can say that again.
     
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  14. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    Morning all…

    In regards to squad depth, it’s a luxury we can’t afford. You look at £15m for Costa and you realise it doesn’t buy you a lot. We could fill the bench with Costa and Poveda type quality but it’s like for like.

    Taking Saturday against Southampton, Shackleton stepped in, he was no worse than Rodrigo or anyone else. Our problem was players simply not performing. Cresswell stepped in before that, again he did okay. You can’t buy squad depth on the cheap so you might as well use the U23s and rather than buy 3 x £12m players get someone else who’s a little more special
     
    #14
  15. blonogasoven

    blonogasoven Well-Known Member

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    It seems that every time I read on here there is someone, usually more than one, attacking Cooper or Roberts.
    I have said this before but again, Roberts cost us fk all, he comes off the bench and gets stuck in straight away. He doesn't complain about not starting and Bielsa likes him.
    If he stopped trying then I'd accept his criticism but you cannot keep attacking a player because you don't think he's good enough. The same applies to Cooper, Dallas and Ayling.
    He does his best. That's not good enough for some of you but it's good enough for Bielsa.
    He doesn't score enough - he cost fk all.
    He's not good enough - he cost fk all

    Rodrigo on the other hand should be setting the place alight with how much he cost us, like Raph does (some of the time) so I can understand criticism of him.

    I thought Forshaw was poor when he came on against Southampton. I thought Gelhardt ran about a lot and made a nuisance of himself but never really got a chance to show us what he can do. I thought Summerville was safe again. He's not attacking defenders like he does for the U23s. Maybe, because they're better defenders, they're not allowing him to but he's a way off yet. I thought McKinstrey looked a better prospect.

    That's me caught up
     
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  16. oldschool

    oldschool Well-Known Member

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    well the pie man has got the boot from the saudi encampment oop north, thought they might have done it sooner tbh, but he walks away with approx £8 million so will be enjoying his mince pies over crimbo.
    and i suppose he will be in contention for another go at the merry go round after a short break, the hunt for a top dog is on now for the toon, will el loco be on the list?, and would he be tempted to start another project...........sheep's eyes anyone
     
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  17. SIDDAS

    SIDDAS Well-Known Member

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    At this moment in time the Bookies think we will finish 14th or 15th.
    You think this is about right?

    1/5 Norwich
    4/9 Watford
    4/5 Burnley
    2/1 Newcastle
    7/2 C.Palace
    5/1 Southampton
    5/1 Leeds
    Still on target with these teams in taking 4pts apart from Southampton.
    One positive thing the 4 we played so far 3 of them have still to come to ER.
    Thought Watford were the poorest so far
    Newcastle will try to buy there way out but how far will they be behind come Jan and how quickly will the team gel.
    Norwich always thought they play good football but have no interest in building a team for the future and always put themselves in a hole.
    Burnley are gash and deserve to go down everything about them is gash Boring,Dirty,Crap Ground,Crap Support. but somehow always find a way is this the season?
    Southampton,Palace I've seen enough to date they look to have the ingredients to survive.

    any others we can had to the shyte list?
     
    #17
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  18. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Blano has his view and he makes some good debate points but:
    “He doesn't score enough - he cost fk all.
    He's not good enough - he cost fk all”

    Roberts cost circa £3.5m in total. He was valued at that high fee for a kid because he was expected to be oven ready for the first tea. It turned out he was injured for over a year so we never saw him. He has since played over 90 games and lets be honest here he has had half a dozen good games. Not good enough. I appreciate that there are some on here who think hes great, thats fine but I can tell you this many are losing patience with him and indeed Bielsa for picking him. He is not delivering and he is getting pelters by the vast majority of Leeds fans. We both have our views and we differ. Debate on Ayling, Cooper, Dallas etc is about ageing players and separate from the Roberts debate.
     
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  19. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    That's it in a nutshell.

    Three teams from those seven will go down.

    Might only be 8 games in but everyone now knows what needs to be done, get fully focused and pick up as many points as possible between now and 1st January. If we're still lingering around the bottom 6 then some serious investment will be needed. Radz and the 49er will have to dig deep to protect all that Marcelo and a fantastic group of players have given their all for.
     
    #19
  20. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    It's all about potential with Roberts, there's no doubt he has something, understandably though whilst waiting for him to blossom many have lost patience and I fully understand that.

    I'll give you an example from Saturday, Harrison is making good inroads towards the edge of the box (2nd half), Roberts finds some excellent space in the box for a pull back but it doesn't arrive. Instead Jack crosses it and the keeper parries it to where Tyler possibly should have followed up to. After his great movement he's just stood watching and then reacted late to a potential half chance. Top players read that, they sniff it out, pounce on those little mistakes and make something happen where there was nothing. What Tyler needs to start doing is producing his good work in the danger areas, at the moment he does great little things but it's all too far away from goal or even the penalty box.
     
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