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Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Makemstine Roger, Nov 24, 2021.

  1. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

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    not to mention Greece Bulgaria Hungary are all pushing back even the Italians with the boats
     
    #41
  2. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    It's Maritime Law that's the problem, once a boat is offshore there's an obligation to help.

    We once got our boat ready, packed all the food & drink on board, fuelled up etc. We were leaving Cannes for St Tropez and only made it halfway. Some bloke had hit a rope, floating in the water, and knacked his motor. We had no option but to tow him into the nearest port.

    Screwed up the whole day but 'ignoring a vessel in peril' can land you in deep water, excusing the pun.

    Besides, imagine if we capsized a boat and people drowned.
     
    #42
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  3. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

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    so we can tow them back to France as they are in peril :emoticon-0105-wink:
     
    #43
  4. Draig

    Draig Well-Known Member

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    Aye, law of the sea has always been help those in distress at sea, but it used to be that we were allowed to fire broadsides at them to put them into distress :emoticon-0102-bigsm
     
    #44
  5. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    The French and Germans take a load more than we do.

    Most of these crossing the channel are coming here because they've got ties to the UK with friends/family.
     
    #45
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  6. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    Yes we could but we can't arbitrarily enter French waters to do that.

    Once they're in UK waters we're obliged to take them to the nearest port.

    That's the conundrum.

    Sadly Priti Patel isn't the right person to handle negotiations, she thinks aggression is the way to settle disputes.
     
    #46
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  7. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

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    history teaches us it was the French who always showed aggression. After the 1066 invasion they had another 3 goes then Crecy 1346 and Agincourt 1415 they didn't want to share then 100 years war and still spitting their dummy out, kicking Napoleons arse didn't help our case either, we sheltered De Gaul during the war who then stabbed us in the back, afterwards thousands of troops lost rescuing France in world wars 1 and 2 , then the bastards sell Superetandare aircraft to Argentina armed with Exocet missiles,Yep they never have never will want to be friends with the UK, only when they want something from us ,It was only months ago they were begging us to bail out the Euro tunnel train owned by the French, which our banks did we never learn with them
     
    #47
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  8. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    I just don't think she's a good negotiator and isn't up to the job.
     
    #48
  9. samwise_new

    samwise_new Well-Known Member

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    explain how you know all this as fact...how can they claim to have family ties here when they 'lose' all papers and claim to be syrian christians??

    how many have NOT been caught coming here and how many are now roaming these shores that are not known about or escaped the 'radar'...around the time of the sunk boat they found several dingys that had obviously made it with unknown quantity in each of them, how many have simply let the dingys down or set them adrift.

    by definition these cannot be treated as refugees by the way, a refugee is a person displaced from their home-land that seeks shelter in the first safe country they arrive at, i would not like to think i turned a genuine refugee away if i could help them in any way but these are simply economic migrants who right now are waiting to pay back the traffikers ridiculous price for getting them here and the best way for them to do that is work on the black market and forever be in debt...i guess they are also having their heads filled with complete nonsense that this country is a 'get rich quick' place to be that offers free housing and health care and jobs galore to anyone that turns up, then they get here and get angry because they do not get these things.
     
    #49
  10. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    You ask me to show facts and then you come out with all this utter nonsense? Can you explain any of yours with facts?

    Can you explain why most of these refugees/migrants are choosing other countries over the UK? If you really believe that they're being told that this country is a 'get rich quick' place, can you explain why they're mainly choosing to live in France and Germany instead of the UK?

    They've just released the details of the first person who died crossing the channel. A 24 year old female, from Iraq and who was Kurdish. You know the Kurdish people who have been our allies for decades? The same Kurdish people who have been mistreated in Iran, Iraq and Syria when all they want is land to call their own. I wouldn't be surprised if she has fought against the terrorists from ISIS and the likes at some point. A lot of Kurdish women take up arms.

    As far as I'm aware the people traffickers demand money upfront for a seat on the boat. They don't give people credit who are going on to a new life in a new country. Unless you can also prove that claim?
     
    #50

  11. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    In the few studies that exist, family ties have been identified as the main reason migrants wish to travel from France to the UK.

    In a survey of 402 people at the former Calais "Jungle" camp, researchers from the International Health journal found only 12% wanted to remain in France, while 82% planned to go to England.

    Of those that wanted to travel to England more than half (52%), said they already had a family member there.

    "They have a connection to the UK, they speak some English, they have family, they have friends and people in their networks. They want to come and stay and rebuild their lives," says Enver Solomon, chief executive of the Refugee Council.
     
    #51
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  12. samwise_new

    samwise_new Well-Known Member

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    nope i wont, just as you always refuse to, you love taking an opposing stance to most things posted, you wait and wait until there is something you can 'have a go at' or a poster you can have a go at yet time and time again you are the worst one for throwing 'facts' around...you have as much idea as i have about how many migrants are entering each country or where they are from, there are even rumours that plenty of these people are just herded onto boats and pointed this way...none of us have no idea if they pay up front or they end up in debt to these traffickers, my take is they end in debt whichever way they choose because those people do not care if they make it or not but once they land they need to have someone to 'take care of them', those picked up and helped by our officials are probably the luckier ones, those managing to get in without being seen most likely end up paying forever (remember those mussel pickers that drowned that time, none were known to be in this country)...and i did say 'i guess' also pretty sure i have not posted anything as 'fact'.

    the problem is, people such as yourself appear to want to cause unrest, rarely agreeing but regularly wanting to cause an argument and never ever acknowledging if they do make a valid point...you can say what you like after this but i wont be taking this any further with you, or anything else actually.... good day.
     
    #52
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  13. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    ^^^^^^^ Knows he doesn't have an answer so changes the subject and deflects attention.
     
    #53
  14. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    A 24-year-old Kurdish woman from northern Iraq has become the first victim of this week's mass drowning in the Channel to be identified.

    Maryam Nuri Mohamed Amin was one of 27 people who died while attempting to cross to Britain on Thursday.

    Her fiancé, who lives in the UK, told the BBC she was messaging him as the group's dinghy started deflating.

    She tried to reassure him that they would be rescued.

    But help came too late, and she and 17 men, six other women - one of whom was pregnant - and three children died after their inflatable boat sank into the sea off the northern French coast.

    Channel disaster: Kurdish woman is first victim identified - BBC News



    ShE WaZ JUst HeRe 4 BeNeFitS tHoUgh :confused:
     
    #54
  15. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    Please stick to your word and don't reply to me. I prefer to converse with folk who don't mind brown people coming into 'their country' <ok>

    Here's some of facts that you were asking me for...

    The below shows the asylum decisions for the top 10 countries in terms of initial decisions made. A positive decision means a decision to grant refugee status, humanitarian protection, or a subsidiary protection status.

    Country
    Decisions
    % Refugee
    % Positive
    % Rejected

    Germany
    128,590
    29.4
    48.6
    51.4

    Spain
    124,795
    3.5
    40.9
    59.1

    France
    86,330
    13.8
    22.2
    77.8

    Greece
    62,190
    42.4
    55.3
    44.7

    Italy
    40,795
    11.2
    28.4
    71.6

    Sweden
    17,215
    16.4
    25.7
    74.3

    Belgium
    16,360
    28.9
    34.9
    65.1

    UK
    14,365
    40.0
    45.7
    54.3

    Netherlands
    13,580
    36.6
    63.5
    36.5

    Switzerland
    11,275
    46.1
    90.3
    9.7"

    "In terms of the number of asylum seekers per 1000 population in 2020 the UK is below the average for Europe."

    "If the number of applications is looked at in relation to each country’s GDP, again the UK is well below the average across Europe"

    Looks like plenty do stop in other countries. Don't let the numbers get in the way of a good story though!

    Source for above: https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/information/resources/asylum-in-europe-may-2021/


    (I lifted this from the mag board)
     
    #55
  16. Ozzymac

    Ozzymac Well-Known Member

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    Just ensuring i understand the data...

    France had 83k decisions made, 13.8% of these applied/sought refugee status (11,454) . 22.2% of the 11,454 were granted asylum totalling 2,543 successful applications.

    Compared to...
    UK had 14k decisions made, 36.6% of these applied/sought refugee status (5,124) . 40% of the 5,124 were granted asylum totalling 2,050 successful applications.

    Now, i live in Australia and we have our own issues but it would also appear that the UK is certainly doing its bit in regards to granting asylum (unless i'm reading the figures wrong).

    I havent done the math for all the countries but it would be an interesting excercise.

    To me the telling figure is the % of refugee asylum seekers per country. Why is the % so low in Italy, France and Spain? If you are genuinely seeking asylum then why aren't those applications being made in these countries? It would appear based upon the stats you've provided that they are simply passing through.

    These comments are all my assumptions based upon the info that has been provided. I don't actually have the foggiest idea of why the percentages are higher in some places than others.
     
    #56
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  17. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    The point it shows is that the comments about refugees all choosing too come here is based on nothing but fear mongering.

    Roughly the same amount of refugees apply to stay in the UK, Belgium and Holland. Holland accepts the higher percentage of claims.

    Populations for the 3 countries...
    Belgium - 11.5m
    Holland - 17.5m
    UK - 67m

    We are definitely doing our bit but so is everybody else. There's countries in the EU that are dealing with way more than what want to come to the UK. We basically aren't seen as the Holy grail to these people like certain posters are trying to point out.

    The main reason a refugee seeks out a certain country is because they'll already be some sort of network there of friends and family.
     
    #57
  18. Ozzymac

    Ozzymac Well-Known Member

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    I understand that totally and firstly let me say i have nothing against refugees. My family here in Oz volunteer with the refugee association.

    I guess the question that i'm asking is that if a person is genuinely a refugee (and by that they have fears of harm and persecution) then why don't they stop at the first country they arrive in where those fears are abated?

    If safety is the key principle sought then surely you would stop when safe and THEN look at moving to where you may have family members/ a social network?

    We see it here as well where refugees from the middle east will pass through India, then Thailand, Then Malaysia, Then Indonesia before boarding boats to Australia.

    Surely at some stage they would have arrived in a country where they felt safe? Malaysia and Indonesia are predominantly the same religion also. I'm just trying to work out the logic.
     
    #58
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  19. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    If I was travelling from Iraq and my family were in England, I wouldn't be stopping in Italy or Greece even if I did feel safe there. I'd plough on regardless until I got to my loved ones.

    I'd also probably think 'You bastards dropped the bombs and caused this so you can look after me'
     
    #59
  20. gelders pie

    gelders pie Well-Known Member

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    8000 years ago Britain’s land mass broke away from France . Think it was trying to tell us something .
     
    #60
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