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Off Topic News & Current affairs

Discussion in 'Charlton' started by ForestHillBilly, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    Fair enough.
    If you're OK with them mugging you off and laughing at you.
    They fooled me once. Shame on them. But they won't fool me twice.

    I'm not saying I'll go out of my way to break every rule they set. But I'll do what I think is right. And I'll never trust them again to tell me right from wrong.
    There were safe ways for me to visit my old mum, like staying outside the house and keeping my distance. I would never put her in danger.
    But I stayed away completely for months on end because that's what they told us to do.

    And all the while they were having drinks parties, bringing in cases of booze under the noses of the Police sentries, and laughing at the millions of trusting dimwits who followed the rules like you and me.
    If my old mum had passed away, and some of my family had been unable to attend her funeral, I would be boiling mad right now rather than just dog tired of their smug hypocrisy.

    The only way I'll trust the authorities in future and obey lockdown rules in good faith is if those who broke the rules at No.10 and in Whitehall are held accountable and punished accordingly, as any of us would have been.
    One law for everybody - including them.

    But I'm pretty sure that won't happen.
     
    #2021
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
  2. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    That’s fine, but presumably if you did get what you’re asking for you’d then want the Police to retrospectively also go after everyone else who broke lockdown rules as well. There’s plenty of evidence out there of others who have broken the rules.

    After all we can’t have one set of rules for one group and another for a different group can we ? Or does that only apply if there’s evidence against government figures ?

    You can’t have it both ways.
     
    #2022
  3. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    Yes, of course the Police should go after everyone who broke the rules if the evidence is available.
    Let those who have that evidence take it to the Police, the way that Sue Gray apparently has.
    One law for everybody, applied without fear or favour.

    But that isn't how it works.
    I'm certain that if I did what Dominic Cummings did, the Police would have felt my collar and I would have been heavily fined, maybe arrested and given a criminal record.
    And Boris Johnson would not have publicly defended me in person, and my right to 'follow my instincts' and drive to a beauty spot during lockdown to test my eyesight.
    He can't have it both ways either.

    Or perhaps he can, because of his status and the power that comes with it.
    Let's see what the Police decide to do.
    My faith in the equality of all people before the Law in this country now rests on their belated actions in this business.
    I would love to be wrong in my cynicism.
    And I'll happily apologise here to the Met (Cressida Dick) and the Civil Service (Sue Gray) for pre-judging them and questioning their integrity, if they do the right thing for justice rather than cover up the truth out of fear of having their card marked or a promise of future reward. Levers available to Boris Johnson, but not to the common people like you and me.
     
    #2023
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
  4. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    And the not very subtle award today goes to :emoticon-0171-star: Jacob Rees-Mogg :emoticon-0171-star:

    For saying he thinks there should be a General Election if Boris Johnson is voted out as PM <laugh>
    Also for saying we now have a Presidential style system (like it or not) and any new Prime Minister should seek a fresh mandate.

    Sorry mate.
    Boris Johnson might enjoy standing at a lectern with a couple of flags behind him, but that does not make him the President.
    His removal from office won't trigger a general election.
    Does JRM really think back benchers will be scared off writing a no-confidence letter by this twaddle?
    Pull the other one Jacob.
     
    #2024
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
  5. Ken Shabby

    Ken Shabby Well-Known Member

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    I'd go along with an MP changing party triggering a by-election. But I don't remember the UK moving to a presidential system. If anything, all the flags just raise the spectre of the Republican party yelling about patriotism while trying to undermine any investigation of the Capitol riots. If johnson finally gets slung out (and he would appear to have not the slightest sense of shame that would make him resign), the usual thing is that they vote for a new PM: I would imagine the recent silence from Rishi Sunak is to try and avoid getting sucked into Partygate and losing his big opporunity to run the country.
     
    #2025
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  6. Ken Shabby

    Ken Shabby Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, while you compare the PM and his toadies to the worst of British behaviour during the pandemic, the majority of citizens of the UK tried their hardest to obey the rules as this was percieved as being for the common good. A lot of MP's did the same - there was the tale of the Welsh MP who had to move out of his house and live in the shed to shield his wife and mother during the pandemic, so even saying that all MP's are the same is giving the sleaze merchants an undeserved lifeline. The fact is this went on under the watch (and it seems certain given his own blundering excuses, his participation) of the Prime Minister of the UK, so to say that a lot of other people were doing the same simply puts his behavious in with the worst und most unhelpful parts of the population. Lawmakers shouldn't be law breakers. Are we supposed to accept that the PM and government are above the rules, and when they get caught, a simple pointing of the finger at Joe Bloggs in Tooting and saying 'he did it too' is acceptable. That's the level of government in the UK now? It's a witch hunt (if you fancy calling it that) because the guys is a narcissistic bungling charlatan, and having been caught over and over again, still remains in office. FFS, he had to apologise to the `palace as the Queen was obeying the law at her husbands funeral the day after one of the No. 10 parties, and sitting alone at her husbands funeral. So let's not pass off the tale of 'it's ok because other people were doing it'. That should be the point where the government loses all credibility. And the opinion polls suggest that is finally happening.
     
    #2026
  7. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    Broadcasters and papers are saying public interest in Partygate is huge (rightly or wrongly).

    Cost of living, NHS in distress, War in Ukraine...
    These are all massive stories, but they are all massively complex too, and none of them will be resolved quickly, or probably well.

    Next to those, the issue of Boris & lock down parties is relatively simple, with one simple and potentially quick resolution.
    And it personally resonates with many people too - people who followed rules, sometimes at great emotional cost.

    The really big issues can be tackled by the next PM and his/her cabinet in the coming months & years.
    Even more effectively if they behave themselves.
     
    #2027
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  8. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    Hypocrisy, hypocrisy. The fact is that tens of thousands of people broke lockdown rules. I’m perfectly happy if people want to go after the PM and if he is discovered to have broken the rules that he should be dealt with the same as the majority of ordinary people.

    But the vast majority of ordinary people who broke the rules got away with it with no sanction whatsoever. The hundred mile drives to beauty spots to take their allowed daily exercise, the raves and parties where Police were attacked and bottled when they tried to intervene, the beach parties, park parties where by simple force of numbers nothing could be done about them. The shopping trips in family groups, the deliberate refusal to where masks because of made up health problems. Only a tiny fraction of any of those examples led to people being fined or otherwise sanctioned. But there has been no cry for the Police to investigate and go after those cases retrospectively - well at least not until it’s government figures who are in the headlights.

    The idea that it’s one rule for the government and one rule for anyone else is ludicrous. Well actually it’s not, but it’s the other way round from what the media are portraying. So when the Police have successfully investigated all those previous lockdown breaches by Joe Public and fined everyone involved and anyone in a privileged position is also dealt with with the same vigour then I will agree that everyone has been dealt with equally.

    But that isn’t going to happen is it, because going after Joe Public retrospectively isn’t newsworthy and doesn’t fit the agenda. Whereas going after the PM is and does. So let’s see what the investigations conclude and if they say the PM did wrong then deal with him the same as the vast majority have been dealt with.

    If people want him to lose his job, then fine, but how many others have lost their job because of similar breaches of the restrictions - or is it OK for him to lose his because he is different and should set an example blah blah. As I say hypocrisy, hypocrisy.

    And finally be very careful what you wish for. IF the PM does lose his job then I hope people have a better leader lined up to take his place, be that another Tory or a Labour leader if they win the next election, which seems possible at this point.

    But despite what the papers and BBC might have you believe, what motivates people when it comes to general election time is different to the issues that they try to push. The British Public have proved the media wrong time and time again.
     
    #2028
  9. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    Leaders should lead by example if they want any sympathy.

    Drinks parties in No.10 and in the garden, drinks every Friday, suitcases of booze from the local offy during lockdown...
    That isn't leading by example.
    Defending an unelected advisor who drove 300 miles while he had COVID and then another 60 mile round trip to a tourist spot in lockdown is not leading by example.
    And unless the Police and Civil service reports exonerate him and all his staff, the PM has also repeatedly lied to Parliament.
    That isn't leading by example either.

    How quickly this administration went from delivering Brexit, to losing control of its own behaviour while 150,000 people have died.
    I think its time for a new broom to sweep though, and a new leader & cabinet to take us forward.
     
    #2029
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  10. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    That’s all fine, so as I have argued, it’s hypocrisy.

    In my opinion it’s hypocrisy for the media and others to be calling for the PM to be subject to the same standards and sanctions as everyone else (which I have no problem with) but then calling for him to lose his job because he is a leader and different to everyone else and must set an example.

    As I say, in my opinion you can’t have it both ways. Either treat everyone the same and investigate everyone with the same zeal and impose the same sanctions (or indeed the same no sanctions) or stop calling for one individual to be dealt with differently because of who he is and because he has to lead by example.

    And with that reply I shall withdraw from this debate as quite frankly there are far more important and urgent matters which could be talked about and which will have a far greater impact on the people of this country if they are not resolved.
     
    #2030

  11. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    I think the difference is that Boris makes the rules, so his excuse that nobody told him the "party" or whatever you call it was against the rules isn't very prime ministerial.
     
    #2031
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  12. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    Boris has made it clear that he will not resign as long as he is not found to have broken the law.
    No consideration of the responsibility he has to lead by example when it comes to honesty, integrity and keeping to the spirit of the lockdown rules.
    Unless he is actually convicted of an offence, he won't quit.

    A vote of no confidence must be on the horizon now.

    Probably not much more to say until the Sue Gray report is published.
     
    #2032
  13. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    Looks like Putin isn't planning on a full scale invasion of Ukraine.
    Apparently the State controlled TV and newspapers in Russia are being very quiet about it.
    The thinking is that Putin's propaganda machine would be seriously preparing (grooming) the Russian people for War if there was going to be a full-on military campaign.
     
    #2033
  14. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    It seems now that the driver of the car did not know the guy he ran over, and his sole motive was to try to stop the attack on the woman.
    I apologise for suggesting the car driver was involved for personal reasons.
    I only mentioned that because I had mistakenly picked up from an early report of the incident that all three of the people involved knew each other.

    Of course, the car driver should not be charged with anything.
    He should be freed from any investigations into his actions immediately.
     
    #2034
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  15. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    The letter of the law may think differently. In which case it would be up to a jury to choose between justice and the law.
     
    #2035
  16. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Whoops! Boris caught lying again, over the evacuation of animals from Afghanistan. Just Boris being Boris what a card!
     
    #2036
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  17. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    He just can't help himself can he.
    Flatly and categorically denied any involvement in the animal rescue scheme.
    Then an email emerges confirming he authorised it.

    Now - to be fair - that email does not mean the Prime Minister prioritised rescuing those animals over rescuing people.
    It just means he did authorise the animal rescue scheme, then denied having anything to do with it.

    That whole Afghanistan debacle was a bad business.
    And that's down to Joe Biden I'm afraid.
     
    #2037
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
  18. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    Er no, it’s down to George Bush and Sir Tony Blair
     
    #2038
  19. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    .
     
    #2039
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
  20. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    What a surprise - to hear the Met Police trying to have some details of the Sue Gray report removed because of their investigation.
    Next, I expect somebody will suggest perhaps the whole Gray report should not be released at all until after the Police investigation is concluded... in May or June perhaps.

    Just how independent is Sue Gray?
    Perhaps she should consider withdrawing from leading the Civil Service inquiry.
    Her independence and integrity will be seriously in question if she agrees to the effective censorship of her report.
    That will mean she had either been duped by the Government, or was in with them from the start.

    I've heard Sue Gray is highly respected within the circles she moves in.
    I think she is being manipulated. And I cannot believe that she is OK with this latest development.
    Only yesterday Cressida Dick said there was no reason the Gray report should be affected by the Met's own investigation.
    That tune changed pretty quickly, didn't it.
     
    #2040
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