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Off Topic Coronavirus - 606 tales from the Inquiry

Discussion in 'Charlton' started by lardiman, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    Macron is a prat.
     
    #3301
  2. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    It's still a pandemic of the unvaccinated, and I'm not sure how you can blame any political leader for anti-vaxxers. They are a law unto themselves. Contrary to what is being said by some we haven't always got everything right, but since it has presented new challenges right from the start I don't see any point in pointing the finger at any leader who has made honest mistakes, and I include Boris in this despite my low opinion of the man.
     
    #3302
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  3. Ken Shabby

    Ken Shabby Well-Known Member

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    I certainly agree that the anti-vaxxers are a pandemic unto themselves and there is no country that isn't suffering for their unutterable selfishness. I would even go part of the way down the path that Boris has made honest mistakes, though they are vastly outweighed by his dishonesty. And therein lies the problem. Boris decided to skip a whole seried of cobra meetings about the oncoming Covid storm, which as PM is pretty unforgiveable, but possibly lead to the governments terrible herd-immunity strategy at the start of the British part of the pandemic.He was also perpetually muttering about not wanting to inflict restrictions on the Uk as this went against a British love of liberty, as if other countries enjoyed being locked up.
    Saying that Boris is getting chased because of a bit of cake is a pretty lopsided way of addressing just the last three months of pathetic denials and lies. If we are going to be calling for the French president to suffer an outdated execution, can we call for that for the liar we have in charge of the UK?
     
    #3303
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  4. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    I still believe that even when he got it wrong Boris was acting in what he thought was the best interests of the country, unlike say Trump or Bolsonaro. governments have been doing a balancing act, and although I have multiple beefs about Boris, it has been difficult. I do object to the constant ghastly self-congratulation by his government though.
     
    #3304
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  5. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    My God, we have some useless leaders.

    I don't think that comment about the guillotine was meant to be taken literally though.
    And if Boris has broken any lockdown rules then he should get a fine like most other silly rule-breakers.
    After all he didn't organise an illegal rave with 5,000 crazed loonies attending - not that we know of anyway <laugh>
    No need to call on Albert Pierrepoint methinks.
     
    #3305
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  6. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    Apologies then. I hadn’t realised that it was Boris that had told the French people that the Oxford vaccine was ineffective for the over 65’s when they were the most vulnerable group and the Oxford vaccine was the only one available for them at that time.

    I’m sure that nothing Macron did or said had any bearing on anyone in France not taking the Oxford vaccine at that time and that no one would have been put off of it by their leader stating that the vaccine was ineffective.

    He loves the British and would never say or do anything to undermine or harm our nation. It was all Boris’s fault.
     
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  7. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Pierrepoint's autobiography is one of the most fascinating books I've ever read. Pierrepoijnt executioner or something like that it's called. He was actually a very decent humane man.
     
    #3307
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  8. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    The Vaccination figures for our neighbouring countries are,

    Portugal: 94% at least one jab 90% fully vaccinated.
    Spain: 87% " 82% "
    Denmark83% 81%
    Norway 79% 73%
    France 79% 76%
    Holland 78% 72%
    Finland 77% 74%
    Sweden 77% 74%
    UK 77% 71%
    Germany75% 73%
     
    #3308
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  9. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    These figures are pretty meaningless as they are not comparing like for like, but if it fits the agenda then hey ho, crack on
     
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  10. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    What agenda? Why are they not comparing like for like?
     
    #3310

  11. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    I’m not going to get into another pointless debate, but I will ask just one question which will highlight how misleading this sort of post can be -

    What are the relevant target ages for giving vaccines in Portugal and the UK ?

    Answer that one and you’ll see why these figures are not comparing like for like and are therefore misleading.
     
    #3311
  12. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    I've looked at several websites from BBC to NY Times and Statista, and they all give vaccines as a percentage of people in a country. There is a slight variation between them, but it seems Malta is way out in front of European countries. I believe facts are important, so if you could point me towards a more detailed breakdown, including ages, I'd be grateful.
     
    #3312
  13. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    If you would just answer the simple question I asked above, you will hopefully see why your post (which was liked by the forum moderator) is misleading.
     
    #3313
  14. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know the answer! That's why I asked you to provide me with a table which would supply a more detailed breakdown, including other European countries. None of the websites I looked at had that info.
     
    #3314
  15. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    All such statistics are subject to margins of error based on differences in the way data is gathered, or the parameters for gathering it.
    If the term 'population' is being applied very differently from one country to another, then the figures given might be misleading.

    But would several different major news websites all misrepresent the common understanding of the term 'population' in order to produce deliberately misleading figures? That seems unlikely, and even suggestive of a conspiracy.

    As for agendas, we all have them.
    When it came to Brexit I was very pro-Johnson.
    When it comes to the way the pandemic has been handled, my opinion is very much divided.
    I do have a general liking for stats though, and I saw no harm in liking the vaccination stats that @The Penguin posted.
    I like a lot of posts.

    If those vaccination stats are wildly inaccurate and the evidence is posted to prove it, I'll probably like that too.
    But until that happens I'm happy to take those stats at face value.

    In London we know around a third of the population is still unvaccinated.
    Perhaps in other major European cities they have the same issue.
    That would make an interesting set of stats if it is out there to be found.
    Do Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Milan, Madrid (etc.) have the same lower than average vaccination rates compared to their national populations?
     
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  16. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    OK, fine, you win, you’ve dragged me into a debate I don’t really want.
    So I will answer the question and elaborate a bit.

    Portugal offer the vaccine to anyone above the age of 5.

    The UK only offer the vaccine to anyone over 12.

    Therefore if equally successful, based on the way the figures are presented in your post Portugal will appear to have a much higher percentage of their population as vaccinated than the UK. But that is misleading because Portugal are offering the vaccine to a different percentage of their overall population.

    This also applies to other countries who all decide what age groups to offer the vaccines to.

    In addition different countries are at different stages of their different vaccination target groups and therefore the figures become even more misleading.

    This is typical of what the BBC and other media do. They don’t lie, they just present the evidence in a way that suits their agenda and much of the public are too thick to understand what is happening or in many cases are just too young and naive to be cynical enough to question it.
     
    #3316
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  17. The Penguin

    The Penguin Well-Known Member

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    THanks, Ube. There are lies, damned lies and statistics, which is why I googled several websites. I agree that stats have to be questioned, including the repeated claim that we are the best vaccinated country inEurope.
     
    #3317
  18. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    I get your drift, though I'm not sure if the 6 to 12 year olds in Portugal would produce the appearance of a much higher percentage of population.
    Marginally higher perhaps. However, I may be hair-splitting.

    As for the BBC, to me it is a very healthy sign that they appear to annoy the Government (and much of the rest of the Establishment) so much.
    It says to me that they are truly independent of State control.
    There are very few public funded National Broadcasters around the world who can truly claim that.

    A Government that seeks to punish the Corporation for being so annoyingly independent, and may perhaps even destroy the BBC in its current form, is something I regard as much less healthy.
    But that's a debating point for another thread I think, not the Coronavirus one.
     
    #3318
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  19. Ubedizzy

    Ubedizzy Well-Known Member

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    Jesus. I give up.

    For a minute there I thought we could just agree that the figures and the post are misleading, but no, I should have known better.

    Let’s get a couple of digs in at the UK government instead.
     
    #3319
  20. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    OK, no more Government digging from me <peacedove>
    Let's just see what pandemic development comes our way next...
     
    #3320

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