Match Day Thread Liverpool v Crystal Palace

Its a good point. we are starting him as he's all we have got right now.

He certainly played like a quasi winger not a cm. But he goes really really wide and then kills the triangle with robbo.

IMO we need to resolve the triangle with a view to get diaz faced the right way and more dangerous.

 

I'm unsure the high line and press is fundamental anymore, a few years ago when it was implemented it was great, teams where obsessive about playing out from the back and we could take advantage.

This is no longer the case, teams are now more than happy to accept that to beat the press all they need is to hit it long, Yes 9 times out of 10 the ball is going to come back at you, but that 10th time it falls nicely and you're right in at the centre backs with a good opportunity.

Playing out from the back was the greatest thing, the press came in to counter it, long ball over the top has negated the press, we need to find the next tactic.

 

I agree. I think we still play the press against teams that still try to play out from the back (Arsenal ) but then have to drop back and take a more defensive shape when the keeper shapes up to boot it.
We still win almost all of those though, the thing that catches us out is the ball over the high line in open play.
Leaving Phillips one-on-one with Zaha was too risky - I thought he dealt with him pretty well considering, but as you say it just needs that one time.
Incidentally, I was surprised the Beeb gave Wilf MotM, considering the number of times he should have done better.

 

I thought Phillips was good, even for the goal, he did the right thing in trying to step up. If he turns and tries to catch him he's not doing it, but neither is any other centre back.

I though Fabinho was poor, but he has been for a while. Milner was awful, the sound of times we had the ball and he was stood next to nunez rather than being open for the pass was shocking.

Trents positioning is a mystery, I can understand him coming inside, bit I'd have thought it would be better to play deep next to fab rather than running in to the number 10 position.

Against a mass defence movement is the best weapon.

Unfortunately we seem to play the ball about between 3 of our players, while the rest all form a line with their centre backs. People need to offer for a pass, drop deep turn, get the opposition to move, all to often we just stop running. The players then wait for the long ball in, or hope that salah or Diaz can produce a moment of magic.

I will say Harvey is the exception, that boy didn't stand still, always moving looking for the ball.

At our greatest we where incredibly fluid, we are now very static. It's something that needs to alter

 

Tbf Milner is behind fab thiago Hendo Elliott Keita. And arguably behind Jones and ox but 4 of those are injured.

Can say what you want about Milner but if rest of the midfield could stay as fit as him then wouldn't be relying on him.

 

I think its absolutely fundamental.

its not about teams pumping it even, its about not letting them have easy outs.

Look at the fulham game were there was very little good pressing, we still managed to force thier keeper (who was poor with feet) to kick the ball away.

Look at palace game. its attack v defence cos they cannot get out. If there's no press its an easy pass out and then quick ball forward

the instant we lose the ball v man utd I would say to anyone watch... our first thing is 3/4/5 players go towards ball, not fall away and defend. we want it back ASAP.

It doesn't really matter if a side is set up to HOOOOOOF or play an actually fast counter with passing, that first ball and how you receive it is critical you your next move.

Say you are palace, you've zaha primed and ready to go as your sole tactic, and you are gifted form the gods to turn up and find nat phillips to target. great.

now what? you have to find him. Its not as simple as skying a clearance and hoping, you have to play a ball at him.

lets break that goal down https://www.skysports.com/watch/vid...-1-1-crystal-palace-premier-league-highlights


this is the start of their move. the ball breaks off salah and head toward milner who is now advanced RW not even RCM.

their defender prods it back to GK.

Look at positions. Trent is central, milne ris beyond the forwards, eilliot is wide right. Nunez is actually free. Robbo can pick up anything coming left. Diaz is actually like a cm.




GK will now have to clear, he does do and is aimng a ball into the wide channel where he's probably been practising hitting the same player all week. A lot of LFC are standing about watching TBH.

Milner has gone to close keeper but he was never realistically putting him off, he has followed his pressing requirement.

Trent realises this loopy ball is headed for their player and starts to run back toward the man going to receive.

Elliott's not read it at all, he's not moved. Diaz has moved. He's looking across. There 4 palace players basically totally unmarked and never will be in this particular picture.




the ball is dropping ehre and trents looking at the man. We also see fabinho now for first time as hes doing the job deep.
Again we take a look at the others. Zero reaction form diaz. Zero from elliott. thet are passive. 2 palace players are now moving with intent.

this ball is not yet in control and the player could nod it in the middle to two breaking players


Trent bacially never gets near and slows up. He actually runs wide and out of this totally, stops running and never gets close again.

Fabinho has over run the man already here and the lad now has his choice of what to do.

the rest you can watch. the main issue with the Press is now stark. Trents not got back and got a bump into the man under the dropping ball and fabinho has not got any challenge in and made a foul to shut it down.

when we get the press RIGHT we make it awkward to make that pass forward be it long or not. A press doesn't need an idiot like arteta trying to play along his own goal line to work. Its about winning that ball ASAP after losing it so teams cannot get us on the counter.

Its about stopping that long ball, rushing the pass, finding players with back to play when receiving the ball. Its high intensity sprint towards ball to rush that pas/ cough up the ball.

 

I'd like to contrast this effort above with another effort



a similar kick up the park has just occurred from their keeper and zaha is the man under it. milner has instantly reacted and seen the man who its going to. His thought is PRESS, WIN IT, FOUL.


he wins it and nods it to elliott.

Look a the position milner has created just by getting after zaha. Nunez is wider. Palace players are moving out. nobody has really picked the guy up. this is LFC #101



ball is played. the palace 5 man defense is in panic. they are now on the back foot. VVD is actually pointing to knock it back out to trent for a cross but elliotts vision and skill has already picked the best option.


Again the rest you guys know what happens he scuffs a glorious change and hits post.

But this IS LIVERPOOL. go win that and catch these teams on the hop. Win that first ball.

What we need to change is what we do on the ball v set defences, not throw this press out. This is what makes our team.

 

It's more fun to watch though.
Arsenal trying to break through the press has been one of the most entertaining spectacles of the last few years.

 

OH ABSOLUTELY IT'S VERY VERY ENTERAINING TO WATCH THE COMEDY OF ERRORS AND BE 4-0 UP AFTER 30MINS.

 

Which is the fundamental issue. We needed 1 midfielder last year and 1 this summer - we've gone from being in a position where incremental changes each summer were required to now a complete rebuild in midfield. If we don't sign anyone, then we need at least 3 next year given Milner and Ox are going, Thiago and Naby are injury prone, Hendo and Fab being another year older and slower.

Tbf to the club, it sounded like they really pushed for Tchouameni this summer but it fell through. Which is fine - it's not good but this is football and we can't always get our targets. But what is concerning is how there is no plan B or we rather wait a year to sign someone. It feels like we t take too many risks when it comes to signings - of course, we all want the number 1 target but that we cannot just wait around for them to become available because football, time and our competitors do not wait a year for us.

Oh and most likely we will need another attacker to replace Bobby.

And I wouldn't be surprised if it's Klopp who is holding back on new signings..

 

You might be right but is there anyone "like" tchouameni out there. He is a mix of massive defensive capability in tackles, aerial and interceptions plus ability to go forward.

everyone else seems a total defender or a swan about attacker. everton signed one of the defensive types.

I don't see anyone linked that going to do that job for us so far?

 

That’s where hope the scouts are doing their job

 

Probably not - he was the perfect target. Unfortunately, he turned us down so now we need to find someone else. Granted, the next options may not be as talented but that does not mean we stop recruiting for that position.