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Match Thread: Watford v Burnley

Discussion in 'Watford' started by geitungur akureyrar, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. babyhornetdan

    babyhornetdan Well-Known Member

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    Well that was eventful. As i text to 3CR (only to have half missed out and my name not read!!) What a come back!! Kacaniklic was the catalyst of it all. It was a game of two very different halves. 1st half we were slow and showed very little creativity, but the 2nd half was much the opposite. I worry that Garner is not performing and would like to see Trotta partnering Deeney.

    Why Dyche even considered putting Buaben on the wing i will never know. He is an ok central midfielder, but he is certainly not a winger.

    Deeney should have lifted the ball over the keeper early on, but hit it straight at him, it would have made a big difference to the complexion to the game.
     
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  2. Saxet

    Saxet Well-Known Member

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    And now we are only 10 points behind Cardiff. Who seem to be in a post Christmas-Malky-Freefall.
     
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  3. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    Strange - there are plenty who would disagree! The 3CR team for a start, who reckoned he had one of his best games in a WFC shirt - Derek Payne was particularly complimentary of him.
     
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  4. geitungur akureyrar

    geitungur akureyrar Well-Known Member

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    I would laugh so much if we finished higher in the league than Malky Mackay's new team.
     
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  5. babyhornetdan

    babyhornetdan Well-Known Member

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    There are plenty. But you have to look at him in the role he plays. He is a striker who has only scored 1 goal. I do get that he runs a lot, but often to no end. We all judge CI by the same standards. The only difference is that CI wins headers rather than run. If he starts scoring or even shooting, he has had 14 shots in 17 games (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/94708/joe-garner?cc=5739), then i will be happy, but when a striker is not shooting or scoring i start to worry.
     
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  6. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    CI wins headers but nearly always to no end - and the fact that he doesn't run makes life easy for opposition defenders, whereas Garner's movement in and around the box creates uncertainty in their minds. And he did create the chance that Alex converted so well on Saturday.

    As to his 'role' as striker - the days of players having a single role in a game disappeared over 40 years ago - they are all team players these days and are responsible for more than a nominal role - even goalkeepers don't stay in their areas as they used to, fullbacks regularly score and forwards regularly make goal-line clearances. None of that can really be reflected in 'stats' - especially when those 'stats' are so obviously wrong (Garner quite clearly laid on the goal for Alex on Saturday, yet still has zero assists to his credit!).
     
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  7. wear_yellow

    wear_yellow Well-Known Member

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    Fully agree with you BB - well apart from the "fullbacks regularly score" bit. I can think of a club that does not happen too often!
     
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  8. North North Watford

    North North Watford Active Member

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    So the question is, can we take eleven points from our remaining games?
     
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  9. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    After WHam, I reckon we'll take 12 out of the next 15.

    And then rub salt into the wound by winning in Cardiff. <whistle>
     
    #209
  10. babyhornetdan

    babyhornetdan Well-Known Member

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    He wins the header, but no body has the presence of mind or where with all to be with in 10yrds of him when he does. So it looks like he looses the ball. However, if there was someone near him to receive the knock down and run on (preferably Alex or Muzza) then we could play route one football occasionally, which we all know is very hard to defend against when done well. Yes JG got the flick, but it actually took a big deflection which took it through to Alex. With out that deflection it would have looked stupid and been another attack wasted.

    Yes the single role may have disappeared, but the idea of a striker scoring hasnt. If a striker is not scoring goals, regardless of his work rate, then i will worry. Trotta worked very hard against Saints and had a couple of good chances, but we lost that game 0-3!! Effort and work rate are only half the job. He needs to score!
     
    #210

  11. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    I think you'll have a hard job finding people to agree with that - we've yet to see goals as a result of him playing! CI is nowhere near as good as the target men we've had in the past and I doubt that, even in his prime, he ever was. So the occasional passage of route one football wouldn't be particularly effective, nor appreciated by the fans.

    As to Garner's flick, yes there was a deflection but not actually a big one. Looking at the video replay, the deflection only caused Alex to stop momentarily - had there not been one, he would still have run onto the ball in space. My main point about Garner's flick is that his accompanying movement caused the defender to follow and leave that space behind for Alex to run into - had CI done it, the defender probably wouldn't have bothered moving & the pass would have gone straight to him!

    Yes, effort and work rate are not enough by themselves - the running has to be intelligent to create opportunities for others. There's little point in running around like a blue-arsed fly, but IMO CI doesn't even do that, so I'd rather have Garner in the team anyday over him. Given a decent run in the team - not the stop-start third of a season that he's been given so far, the goals will start to come from him, of that I'm sure.
     
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  12. babyhornetdan

    babyhornetdan Well-Known Member

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    Well if you consider that there has been 20 goals in games where CI has played, and 18 where JG has played, so in that aspect they are pretty even. However, that does not mean they set them all up. Both have scored 1. Plus, im not fussed how many agree with what i say. People are saying that he does nothing with the ball when he wins the header, but who is to say that its people not reading what he is going to do and playing to his strengths. But people seem to think that its CI's fault.

    Whilst CI does not run too much, he does draw 1/2 defenders to mark him and to try to stop him winning the headers, which usually leaves the other striker free. So in his own way Iwelumo does the same as Garner. Atm i would rather give Trotta a stint in the team. He was brought in as a goal scorer but was dropped after just one match against the top team. Slightly unfair imo.
     
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  13. Mexican Hornet

    Mexican Hornet Well-Known Member

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    Finally a much needed good performance and some confidence boost going to the hammers, happy days.
     
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  14. harrowhorn

    harrowhorn Active Member

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    I think that's stretching it. First half was the worst this season.
     
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  15. Hornette_TID

    Hornette_TID Well-Known Member
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    i like Garner, he works hard, and BB is right, he's far more effective than CI. Garner seems a bit like marmite...you either love him or hate him. I want to see him play much more...
     
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  16. Yellow_Greg

    Yellow_Greg New Member

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    I know route one football isn't the most attractive but i noticed during the Burnley game that Kuszczak's kicks are pretty long!
    in terms of that i reckon Iwelumo would be effective but obviously that's not the game we want to play.
     
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  17. babyhornetdan

    babyhornetdan Well-Known Member

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    Hello Greg. I had noticed the same thing. He can side foot the ball up to the half way line with little effort. So if CI was to stand a couple of yards outside the opp box Kuszczak could launch it up to him, he could knock it down and Deeney or Kacaniklic or Murray could run onto the knock down or just hit it. Its very hard to defend, and would change things up and give the defenders something else to think about. It would not have to be every time, but just every now and again. Leicester were an example of how it can be effective. After all, thats what lead to their equaliser.
     
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  18. North North Watford

    North North Watford Active Member

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    What Dan said.

    The reason Iwelumo is so unpopular is that Dyche used him when he patently wasn't fit, and first impressions take a long time to shake off. When he has been fit he has more often than not been played in a style of football which suggests that Dyche expects him to be a carbon copy of Danny Graham, which simply isn't going to happen.

    Play him to his strengths and judge him on what he does. If we don't want to play that way, then simply don't play him.
     
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  19. wear_yellow

    wear_yellow Well-Known Member

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    I thought that the best game I have seen CI play was against Leicester at home, where as BHD mentions that put 2 players on him and at times he created havoc with their defence - it led to our winner. Maybe it was because I was sitting in the Upper Rous that night instead of being in The Rookery and you get a different perspective of the depth of a game? But I would rather play with 2 nippy strikers playing off each other and Deeney can get the ball down.

    I also noticed what Greg mentioned above regarding Kuszczak's kicks - they come down from a great height!
     
    #219

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