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What happened to Innocent until proven guilty? - Jimmy Saville OT

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Darth Tash, Oct 4, 2012.

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  1. Darth Tash

    Darth Tash Well-Known Member

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    I aint defending him or accusing him. I'm looking at this case in a completely rational way.

    There's no real evidence against him, just a bunch of women accusing him of abusing them. Now they're taking down Jimmy Saville statues, and his name will be forever associated with accusations of rape.

    It's not fair, he's not even alive to defend himself. I personally didn't really like him, but I don't think it's fair that people get judged for things like this so quickly, and called creeps and weirdos. There's no evidence against him, yet everyone "knows" he did it. It's things like this that keep my faith in society very low indeed.

    Look at the amount of footballers that are accused of rape these days? And what happens if the woman comes forward and admits she was lying? Nothing. She doesn't getting punished for lying about it, even though false rape claims have lead thousands of men committing suicide. Anyway, I'm going off on a slight tangent, back to the topic.

    They claim that no one would have believed them, and that's apparently why they never came forward, but coming forward only after he is dead means he cannot defend himself and he doesn't have a fair chance to prove the accusers wrong, or at least have his say. It's easy to say that a man with an obvious high sex drive, due to his collection of female admirers, would be a rapist.
     
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  2. Geordie Monkey

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    Don't often post on here, but feel quite stongley about cases like this, my youngest brother being accused of rapring his ex girlfriend, she later retracted the charges admitting that she only wanted to hurt him for dumping her but it cost him his job, contact with his kids (when his ex-wfe found out) and he ended up attempting to harm himself. Regardless of the person involved the law is quite inadequate, the accuser is given anonymity whilst the accused is plastered all over the press. In too many cases false acusations have led to people taking their own lives or being forever labeled a monster whilst the accuser slips off into the distance without repercusions. It's past time the law is changed to reflect the basic premis of protecting the innocent!
     
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  3. Freddd

    Freddd Well-Known Member

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  4. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Fiddler for me like
     
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  5. Tel (they/them)

    Tel (they/them) Sucky’s Bailiff

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    I'd be very surprised if there was nothing to any of the stories.

    All it took was one to come forward now there's several accusations, you've got to be pretty low to accuse a dead guy of molesting you if it wasn't the truth. I'm with you though Tash, totally non-starter for me if the guy is unable to defend himself, if these women came forward a few years earlier then we could have passed judgement on the Jimmy, having the benifit of hearing his side of the story.

    Not sure what to make of your thousands of blokes committing suicide after being accused of rape comment though, either you've plucked that one out of the air or you have been researching rape.
     
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  6. Hung Drawn and Quartered

    Hung Drawn and Quartered Well-Known Member

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    question is, (whether he has or has not, I do not know)

    why wait untill he's dead to come out and accuse him, as the guy can't defend himself now...
    what have they been doing about it for the last 20 years or so,
    in these days of 'claims' against anything that moves are they now trying to tap into his estate or the BBC's insurance
     
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  7. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    This was my first thought being honest. I suppose on the flipside those who have gone through this kind of ordeal would say that burying it is a very common solution. In cases where there are multiple cases, it is common for the first one to open the floodgates. Particularly where the person accused sits in a position of power i.e. a celebrity, the boss etc. There is a feeling that you won't be believed aswell as the misplaced shame they tend to feel about the ordeal. It tends to be the solidarity they feel with another who has been abused which triggers them actually voicing their experience for the first time.

    Enough psycho babble though, for me he's a fiddler. This rumour has circulated about him for years. His sympathy with Glitter which they highlighted raised a number of concerns at the time. I'm surprised by the uproar, have people never heard this said about him before?
     
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  8. Sports Direct Username

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    It's the same with anything in the press these days.

    When that architect got murdered last christmas the landlord was plastered all over the press, made out to be guilty, got members of the public to come out and say how they always thought he was weird and he turned out to be innocent.

    What happens if this Mark Bridges turns out to be innocent in the young girl case down in Wales? His face, information and whole family history has been plastered over every paper. He won't be able to live in the area again and he could turn out to be innocent?

    I feel that names should just not be mentioned until it's at least gone to court and proven one way or another. The press just treat life like a big soap opera to make a bit of money without caring who gets harmed in the way.
     
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  9. Agent Bruce

    Agent Bruce Well-Known Member

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    A slap across the wrists and a hefty fine might make them think twice before publishing incriminating stories about innocent people.

    A fair whack of compensation to the falsely accused too.
     
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  10. TopTierToon

    TopTierToon Member

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    Not going to go into the full thing, but I was watching This Morning at work and they brought up a quote of his: "Gary Glitter isn't a paedophile, he is just unlucky that he got caught with a couple of dodgy videos."
    That's pretty damning against the guys character if nothing else. The fact that all the unrelated witnesses stories corroborate each other is also telling. The style of attack etc etc
     
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  11. Jimmy Savile

    Jimmy Savile New Member

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    Ahhhhh, I see I'm amongst friends here.


    I'm totally, totally innocent and no amount of proof will prove otherwise.
     
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  12. RAVENBLACK

    RAVENBLACK Well-Known Member

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    Its all a smokescreen to divert peoples attention from the real story.

    hes being made a scapegoat and hes dead. he cant suddely pop back to defend himself.

    this has all the hallmarks of an endemic satanism within the powers that be.

    mark my words, the truth will be revealed.
     
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  13. Jimmy Savile

    Jimmy Savile New Member

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    Plus, it's all very difficult to apply one generations morality to another's actions.


    Yesterday's 13 is tomorrow's 19.

    In the future, my old mates Sutcliffe and Blackburn will be hailed as the Satanic Majesties they were.
     
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  14. Freddd

    Freddd Well-Known Member

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    The only difficulty with that is that no claim can be brought for reporting an accurate account of events or the content of proceedings in Court.

    If somebody has been arrested, you can report that beside full details of the crime for which he has been arrested. You haven't actually said he has done anything - - just that he has been arrested for a particular crime. 95% of the people will assume that he is guilty of the crime but you haven't said that, and you cna't be sued for it.

    There is a very tricky balance to be drawn between free speech, holding the judicial process up to public scrutiny, and personal privacy.

    I understand entirely the concern about blackening people's names. I also have been personally involved in a series of cases of sexual misconduct brought against a professional which, being civil cases, were subject to orders designed to protect the privacy of the parties. If memory serves, there were 4 separate claims brought oveer the course of 7 years.

    All of them were dismissed. The primary reason for the claims being dismissed is that it was the word of the claimant against a respected professional, and that no one involved was aware of the fact that several other identical claims had been separately brought and separately dismissed.

    Going back to someone like Jimmy, how would we all feel if the "say nothing until he is convicted" rule were in place, and it turned out that a series of rape charges had been brought by a number of women, each thinking she was the only one, all of which were dismissed on the basis that there was no corroboration of any of their stories ?

    No real easy answers in this area
     
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  15. lady-eleanor

    lady-eleanor Well-Known Member

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    Agree with this.
     
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  16. Freddd

    Freddd Well-Known Member

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    Also, bringing a claim agsaint Saville's estate or BBC's insurance will be far from straightforward - - perhaps not impossible but certainly several years of uncertain litigation. If you are just looking for opportunist claims, a claim about what a drunken footballer did last week has a far higher prospect of success than what Jimmy Savil may have done 30 years ago.
     
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  17. NUFCBRONX

    NUFCBRONX Active Member

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    I read he more or less admitted it in his autobiography.

    Anyway, he's dead, so presumption of innocence doesn't really apply, and nor can he be slandered &c.

    Also he was a creepy weird ****er. That's evidence enough for me.
     
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  18. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy Saville claimed Gary Glitter did nothing wrong and was a victim of the police because he was famous! He went on to say that the child porn found on Glitters laptop were for personal use so what was the problem.

    This was said during a taped interview so he wasn't misquoted.

    Defending a convicted paedophile and claiming he hadn't done wrong says a lot about Saville...and none of it is good.
     
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  19. Jesus Was A Geordie

    Jesus Was A Geordie Well-Known Member

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    Friend of a friend had a similar thing happen (except it was a girl who was caught cheating on her bf when drunk at a party and claimed rape)...One of the bizarre twists in the tale, which actually helped him get justice, was that the girl had banged Oba Martins a few weeks before and had called him the next day crying down the phone (the first person she told as well) - he was away on pre-season with Newcastle at the time of trial so his lawyer read out a statement where he basically said "I asked her why she rang me, then told her to tell her mother and the police"
     
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  20. TopTierToon

    TopTierToon Member

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    Yup.
     
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