What's the real problem with the NE?

Following up to a thread about Quinny promising an exciting squad for next season and one posters declaration that clubs like Liverpool will always attract the best players as they are seen as bigger clubs? Yes, today they are but that has not always been the case and it is on this point that I have been banging on about, ever since we sold Henderson. While we are happy to shout from the roof tops that we are selling our best young players to the likes of Liverpool, for whatever money, we will NEVER amount to anything other than a part time feeder club to the big boys.

In the 50's, Liverpool were no bigger than us at the time, or maybe even smaller than SAFC, as we had the pedigree and history then. Then along came a man called Shankly and decided to change history. He put Liverpool on the map and a succession of great managers succeeded him and built on his foundations. Liverpool have never been a selling club since. Man Utd were no bigger in real terms in the 50's and then along came a man called Busby and he decided to re write the history books. Man Utd have remained a buying club ever since UNLESS the manager decided otherwise and then ALWAYS replaced quality sales with quality buys. Chelsea had some woeful teams and crowds int he 70's and 80's. Then along came a megalomaniac billionaire and he bought the history books. Only Arsenal have been an established and massive club since the 20's and they have some wonderful history to be fair.


So, my point is just because it's been that way for a long time, it doesnt mean it has to be this way forever. However unless we get ourselves a Shankly or Busby, we will always remain second rate. That's why the selling of Jordan marked a very sorry and depressing point in the current regimes management IMO. Unless we are total ****ed financially, there was no need to flog the lad so easily and we should have been adding to him, not replacing him. I agree the money for a young player still making his way was huge but the signal it sent out to other players thinking of joining us OR indeed the ones still with us has cost us much more IMO.

Personally, neither Gibson, N'Gog or this lad Won are anywhere near as good as the lad we have just sold and unless we have people at the club that are prepared to throw away the rule book that says Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea are to win everything and the rest of us are there just to make up the numbers and sell them our best players, we will always be a very disappointed set of fans up here in the NE.

Don't tell me that Manchester or Liverpool is a fabulous area to live in, its a **** hole and comes nowhere near to Durham & Northumberland for natural beauty. Durham City is a delight to walk around and Newcastle has vibrant night life. Sunderland is the poor relation as a city but it is changing slowly and surely and the Arc project (if it ever gets going) will be a wonderful cultural centre piece for the city. I confess that we cannot compete with the bright lights of London for foreign players but then neither can Liverpool or Man Utd sometimes for that matter.

The players go to Manchester and Liverpool because they see a winning mentality and a chance to progress, whilst at SAFC they simply see a selling club, that lacks ambition and the desire to achieve. I have to admit that under Keegan and John Hall, our cousins up the road nearly broke that mould and had they won the league the year they blew a 15 point lead, who knows where it may have taken them. Thats what we need to do now. Break the mould. Sadly, in JH case its too late but the players that come in this summer must be of a quality to get us knocking on that door of the top 6 and then maybe by not just cashing in on them, Bruce can still yet be the foundation builder at SAFC. He is no Shankly or Busby that's for sure but I really though he could be something special 2 years ago only to find out he is very ordinary in practice.

Its not area or the region that's the sticking point, its the potential of the club that attracts the players. We have to change that perception and starting with the players coming in in the next 9 or 10weeks.

 

Interesting point the Saint made on Liverpool TV earlier today Cest.
He was asked whether Liverpool should only be looking at players for a top 4 finish.
His response was no we should be looking at players to WIN the league!

I thought the skunks were going to do do it a couple of years ago before all the nervous breakdowns happened.

I truly believe if Reidy had been given some cash to bring in some more quality world class players we could have moved on.
For too long in our past our directors have been happy to just coast through without ambition.

 

Yawn.

 

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A good start would be caring about all the games and not worrying about what the team up the road are doing. I want to beat the mags as much as everyone else but I think sometimes it takes over and we forget about the games against the lesser sides. Players want success and in their eyes petty local squabbles don't interest them, winning medals and silverware does.

 

Sorry mate got to disagree, not being interested in our local derby would be shameful IMHO.
It was embarrassing the lack of interest last season.
I want them going out and playing for SAFC with passion every game, but to not do it for the petty squabble is incomprehensible to me..

 

Going back to the 50s and early 60s (I wuz around) there was the maximum wage. All clubs paid the same wages.
Sunderland and Newcastle were quite 'big' clubs as they had the advantage then of huge crowds.
Before the reduction of the Roker End (at Roker Park), crowds of 50k were commonplace.
Hence the Bank of England image - big crowds meant lots of dosh available.
Players wages were a pittance.

Today the 'big' clubs have huge turnovers
i.e. their gate money is not the only source of income

But for the likes of Sunderland, the silly wages allied to a reduced turnover (compared to the top six) makes for reduced availabilty of funds for incoming transfers.
An alternative is to go into massive debt - Leeds, Toon are examples.

In my time I have seen Man utd relegated (yes it did happen), Spurs relegated, Chelsea relegated, Villa in 3rd tier for about 10 years, Wolves in bottom tier ... so nothing can be taken for granted.


So nothing is cer

 

Makes you wonder where all that income was going back then mate.
Certainly wasn't going on the facilities.
I can never remember using the bogs behind the Fulwell End and not having to plodge.

 

cest, you've just put in words what i've being thinking for a while. cheers mate and fully agree

 

Good article Cest. I may not hold Henderson in the same regard as you (Good player yes but still has a lot to prove) but I tend to agree with the rest. As I've written on here many times (though maybe not always so politely) You get what you pay for in this world and our problem is that we don't pay premium wages. All this bull about winning trophies and the rest of the garbage players utter when they move on is rubbish.

Bent was tempted by money and Henderson the same.

Until we pay the same sort of wages as the big boys we will always be "also rans"
This is why I'm always sceptical when we are linked with big name player. I know and the club knows we will never meet their personal terms. (it's all window dressing)

Bruce may want to shop at Harrods but in reality the best he can do is Netto.

 

Guess the money went to the players. Weren't SAFC fined for paying backhanders in the 50's resulting in first relegation in their history.

 

A good post Cest;I was supporting the Lads in the late 50's and we drew the best players despite the maximum wage BUT was the maximum wage adhered to??.I don't think so.I think that the signs for the future are promising but we can't throw silly money at players until we increase our turnover if we want to get into Europe.
We have to get rid of Keane's high earning dross so that we can pay top dollar to 1/2 marque signings.
Lets hope that the Daily Fail is right and that Seb Larsson is ours.
KTF

 

When I was a young un , they always blamed the distance we were from London. Thats why Sir Alf would never come to Roker to watch games.

However , in these days high speed trains , better motorway connections and the option of the players being able to fly down south , or even hire helicopters to rush them down to the big smoke , none of these arguments are any longer valid.

So for me it comes down to one simple thing . . . . . money.

 

Ponteland airport is 50 mins away from London and has daily commuter flights. There is a high speed rail network which links the capital with us in 3.5 hours door to door. The M1 & A1/M runs directly to the big smokey in 4.5/5 hours.

Players have access to private planes and helicopters and all drive fast powerful comfortable cars.

The only thing stopping them coming here is money and we have to make our minds up where we stand. Do we blow the budget and pay top wages and get the top players amnd try to become and become a top 4/5 club or do we consolidate our position, be more realistic and balance the books whilst keeping the club in the middle of the table.

One carries a high risk. The other the threat of long term mid-table boredom.

 

Or year in year out relegation twitchy bum syndrome?

No one wan't us to do a "Leeds" but I do find it incredible when income is there we don't start spending a bit more straight away. IE. selling top players for large amounts then trying to cut corners when replacing them or in our case not replacing them.

The majority of the players we get linked to are journeymen maybe a little harsh but true.

If a gem comes up we have to splash the cash and say come on we are going places. The years dithering over N'Zog springs to mind.

 

MackemsRule - Am I alone in thinking that if the club splashed the cash a bit more on the N'Zogbias, Crouch's, Johnsons, Downings etc then we could very quickly raise the capacity of the SOL, as more people WOULD come to watch an exciting team. I think both Newcastle and Sunderland could easily fill 60,000 plus stadiums if the football was good enough. Pre-Keegan, the mags would struggle to get 25,000. Post-Keegan and some exhilarating football it has to be said, suddenly it was doubled.

We have been doing our bit for 40 years without reward. If the club want full stadiums they are going to have to flash the cash. NGog, Won and the like wont fill ANY stadium.

 

50 years for me mate through thick and thin.
If the club doesn't show more passion and belief how do they expect the fans too?

I have just made a thread elsewhere about season tickets.
I'm very sad to say my son and his mates are getting more and more disillusioned with the way things are going at the SOL.

 

Never truer words spoken mate, EPL is now a global market
and known around the globe. To be as a succes,they have to make a stand, or they will be just another name making up the numbers...

 

That’s another great article, Cest. Thought provoking stuff.

Footballing comparisons between Manchester/Liverpool and Newcastle/Sunderland are valid.

I wonder if the difference between NW and NE is just down to Busby and Shankly. Or is some credit due to the owners who backed them at the time? I don’t know the answer to that.

These days football is big business and the values of owners, who are rarely from the locality, are very different to 70 years ago when Busby took over at ManU. Can you believe it was that long ago? I had to check it out. Actually, the Wikipedia page on Busby is fascinating.

I can’t help but look back almost 5 short years (farkn hell, doesn’t time fly) to my birthday on Aug 28 2006 when RK walked in. Sunderland, despite the euphoria of the Quinny/Drumaville takeover (thank you, Bob Murray), looked like plummeting down the leagues. Bleak times indeed.

Four years in the PL is a massive achievement but we quickly forget where it all started, at the foot of the Championship. SAFC is in such much better hands than in the days of Reidy’s consecutive 7ths. Even that recently, the PL was a different animal. We will never again see Blackburn take the title unless there is an earthquake in the football or chicken curry world.

Sadly, the romance of Cloughie taking Forest straight from promotion to win Div 1 is a thing of the past, and I am really sad about that. It’s a different playing field in the second decade of the 21st century.

So – to answer your original point – the phenomenon of a Busby or a Shankly cannot happen nowadays. Dalglish is shaping up in that mould but he is backed by maybe £100 mill this year?

Our paymaster is an astute individual. Hedge funds don’t go from Championship to CL level in three years. They build a solid foundation and improve consistently to provide solid returns that you literally can bank on.

That’s where we are. Steady consistent building. Tortoise V Hare, and we know who won that race.

Patience, my friend.

 

Nice 1, 56