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Off Topic Battle of Agincourt

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Swords Hoopster., Oct 25, 2015.

  1. Swords Hoopster.

    Swords Hoopster. Well-Known Member

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    They actually won that war COL
     
    #21
  2. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    How many did they lose?
     
    #22
  3. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Assume you're meaning this then - will be plenty of fireworks on here <yikes>

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Rising

    Easter Rising
    This article is about events of 1916 in Ireland.

    Éirí Amach na Cásca

    Proclamation of the Republic, Easter 1916
    Date 24–29 April 1916
    Location Dublin,
    skirmishes in counties Meath, Galway, Louth, and Wexford
    Result Unconditional surrender of rebel forces, execution of most leaders.
    Belligerents
    Irish rebel forces:
    Irish Volunteers
    Irish Citizen Army
    Cumann na mBan British Army
    Commanders and leaders
    Patrick Pearse
    James Connolly
    Tom Clarke
    Seán MacDermott
    Joseph Plunkett
    Éamonn Ceannt
    Thomas MacDonagh Lord Wimborne
    Augustine Birrell
    Matthew Nathan
    Lord French
    Lovick Friend
    John Maxwell
    William Lowe
    Strength
    1,250 in Dublin,
    ~2,000–3,000 elsewhere, but they took little part in the fighting. 16,000 troops and 1,000 armed police in Dublin by the end of the week.
    Casualties and losses
    64 killed
    unknown wounded
    16 executed 132 killed
    397 wounded
    254 civilians killed
    2,217 civilians wounded
    Total killed: 466
    The Easter Rising (Irish: Éirí Amach na Cásca),[1] also known as the Easter Rebellion, was an armed insurrection in Ireland during Easter Week, 1916. The Rising was mounted by Irish republicans to end British rule in Ireland and establish an independent Irish Republic while the United Kingdom was heavily engaged in World War I. It was the most significant uprising in Ireland since the rebellion of 1798.[2]

    Organised by seven members of the Military Council of the Irish Republican Brotherhood,[3] the Rising began on Easter Monday, 24 April 1916, and lasted for six days. Members of the Irish Volunteers — led by schoolmaster and Irish language activist Patrick Pearse, joined by the smaller Irish Citizen Army of James Connolly, along with 200 members of Cumann na mBan — seized key locations in Dublin and proclaimed an Irish Republic. There were actions in other parts of Ireland: however, except for the attack on the Royal Irish Constabulary barracks at Ashbourne, County Meath, they were minor.

    With vastly superior numbers and artillery, the British army quickly suppressed the Rising, and Pearse agreed to an unconditional surrender on Saturday 29 April. Most of the leaders were executed following courts-martial, but the Rising succeeded in bringing physical force republicanism back to the forefront of Irish politics. Support for republicanism continued to rise in Ireland in the context of the ongoing war in Europe and the Middle East and revolutions in other countries, and especially as a result of the Conscription Crisis of 1918 and the failure of the British-sponsored Irish Convention.

    In December 1918, republicans (by then represented by the Sinn Féin party) won 73 Irish seats out of 105 in the 1918 General Election to the British Parliament, on a policy of abstentionism and Irish independence. On 21 January 1919 they convened the First Dáil and declared the independence of the Irish Republic, and later that same day the Irish War of Independence began with the Soloheadbeg ambush.
     
    #23
  4. QPR999

    QPR999 Well-Known Member
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    You've got it Monkey, that's the one.
     
    #24
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  5. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Shame, I was looking forward to a debate about the supposed crucifixion of a mythical figure.
     
    #25
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  6. mapleranger

    mapleranger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the heads up about Hastings. Mrs Maple and I have been taling about visiting the site on our next trip to Britain and it cuold be next year as my daughter will be graduating from Univ of the Arts London the next year though I expect that the timing will be wrong (the grad is usually late May)

    Hmmm, Late May and maybe a trip to Wembley?

    COYRs
     
    #26
  7. QPR999

    QPR999 Well-Known Member
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    I thought we had already covered that one?
     
    #27
  8. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Jesus the person was real.
     
    #28
  9. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure there is Col, outside the Bible which was written decades or more after he was supposed to be around and is a composite work of propaganda. The Romans kept very good records and he doesn't get a mention, even as someone who was executed. The few Roman historians who mention him were again writing decades later, when there were Christians in Rome, telling the story. There are no eyewitness/first hand accounts - primary sources are essential for serious history, and everything we have would be dismissed as hearsay in a court of law. I am sure there were plenty of mystics wandering around the Middle East at the time and I can't say he didn't exist. You could argue that the fact that all these stories exist would indicate that there was someone of that name playing some kind of public role about that time, but none of it amounts to proof. My 'mythical' was a bit cheeky, but no more so that the assertion that Jesus existed beyond debate (which I know you are not making) the common acceptance of which is a masterful piece of Church propaganda.

    It doesn't really matter though, it's whether you believe anything that this figure, real or imaginary, represents which is important. Mohammed definitely existed, and I don't believe any of his stuff (much of which was pinched from Christianity and Judaism anyway) either. I would genuinely welcome any evidence that proved Christ was a real historical figure, it would be really interesting, even though it wouldn't change my views on religion and christianity.
     
    #29
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  10. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    I'd be disappointed to find that Jesus, or Josh as I prefer to call him, didn't actually exist. He seems like a decent bloke.

    Mohammed seems to have been a bit of an arse.
     
    #30
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  11. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Tacitus tends to suggest that Jesus the man existed. His writings are very well respected. Josephus, the Roman historian, too mentions Jesus.
    The Romans destroyed Jerusalem in AD70 so there's not likely to be much physical evidence. there does seem to be a wealth of historical evidence for Christ. Soon the apostles had written letters detailing Christ's life and teachings, to be followed by the writings of Paul all widely copied and circulated, within the lifetime of eyewitnesses.

    There is also the artifact discovered which is an ossuary, a medium-sized box in which human bones were placed for permanent burial after the flesh had all decayed away. This practice was employed for only a brief period of time from about B.C. 20 to A.D. 70. The box is made of a soft, chalky, limestone, common to the area. The contents have long since vanished.
    An inscription has been etched into the side which reads, "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus" in the Aramaic script of the time. Careful studies, including scrutiny under a scanning electron microscope show the inscription to be genuine. The patina, or oxidized surface equally covers both box and the interior of the etched letters. The recognized expert, Dr. Andre Lemaire, concludes: "I am pleased to report that in my judgment it is genuinely ancient and not a fake."

    I like to think that a man named Jesus did exist and was a very talented magician and man of the people.

    As you know, I don't believe there has ever been a Son of any God or indeed, any religious God..................ever. A creator of some kind? Now that's a different question.
     
    #31
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
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  12. Swords Hoopster.

    Swords Hoopster. Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, if you're talking about a subject such as as this, you should know the answer yourself COL. As a kind of history buff, it irks me when people make statements that have no basis in fact.

    In terms of military history, France is one of the most accomplished nations on Earth. She has won many wars and hundreds of battles, even conquering the whole of the developed World at one point when the rest of Europe was railed against her. The problem is, some people (reactionary nationalists mainly) judge her record on the last great conflict she was involved in whilst being entirely ignorant of the thousand or so years prior. If one were to take her history in its entirety, one would immediately realise the folly of thinking in such a crude uninformed manner. At the very least, as a measure of some semblance of maturity, I'm sure any normal decent Englishman (as almost all of them are) would acknowledge the worthiness of an opponent that stood toe to toe with his Country and never gave an inch without accounting for it dearly, like no other nation in history.

    The word you're looking for COL is : Respect
     
    #32
  13. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    The factual, historical side, is really interesting. Either side is probably unprovable now. The ossuary stuff...well how common were the names Jesus, James and Joseph back then? None of the Epistles were written directly by the disciples, they were illiterate fishermen anyway (if they existed),St Paul (who is reckoned to have actually written some of those attributed to him) never claimed to have met Jesus. And of course any original, contemporary sources would have been written in aramaic, copied countless times into Greek, Coptic and Latin, mistakes all along the way....it's a real detective story.

    To be honest Col, I reckon there was probably a wandering preacher called Jesus or something like it, along with dozens of others of would be 'messiahs' - it's logical, given the nightmare the Hebrews were going through at the time, that a plethora of saviours would be around. Like the classic line from Life of Brian "It's a sign, he is the Messiah, I should know I've followed a few". The Jesus of the Bible is probably a composite figure.

    Tacitus was a cool dude though, I vaguely remember studying him at 'A' Level. Don't think it's relevant to the Christ references, but his Histories and Annals (of the early Emperors) was written to glorify the Emperor at the time he was writing (Domitian I think), and a coded plea for a return to the principles of the Republic. The king of ancient historians (and father of all study of history) though was Thucydides who not only lived through the Peloponnesian War he wrote about (at great length, not an easy read) but also set out the principles he would use in the way he did it.
     
    #33
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  14. Didley Squat

    Didley Squat Well-Known Member

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    Wow ................. if he didn't exist, all the betting agencies that paid out on his existence will be going ballistic!
     
    #34
  15. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Quite right.
    I was being a little mischievous.
     
    #35
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  16. Swords Hoopster.

    Swords Hoopster. Well-Known Member

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    I've just been trolled :frown:
     
    #36
  17. TWGWTDT

    TWGWTDT Well-Known Member

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    I know nothing about War Col but I know France and have massive respect for the resistance
    Since WW2 England has dined out on the great victory and even now your programming is easy to see
    I am sick to death with how the UK portrays itself in War and feeds severely damaging propaganda out to our generations
    I respect all views but can assure you that France remembers its hero of the pasts far more than the UK does IMO why?
    Because in most cases they had it worse than anyone on this grubby little island of mixed up people can even imagine

    The French currently sit head and shoulders over the UK in terms of a superior fighting force. They have the tech, the skill and the edge over our armed forces
    So where does that leave us? trailing behind with false memories and words

    I agree with what you said about the old battle from what our history tells us. If there was a duff up today there would be little contest … not that i even agree with War and what France is doing around the world … they are just as evil.

    War Games … The UK must be close to being similarly ranked as they are in Football by FIFA ..10th

    Yes France are 22 but have only played friendlies … wait for the real battle to start they will rise from 22 into the top five
     
    #37

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