See, you can't help but accuse. I've already ****ing explained that it's nothing to do with my view of male and female. It's everything to do with fair competition. It's pathetic that this can't be discussed without being accused of being discriminatory. It's not fair for a trans woman, with a man's physical attributes to compete against females. In the end, no females will bother to compete, knowing that they have no chance of winning. Unfortunately, you and others like you who completely shut down this discussion will never allow any debate on the subject.
No, you're running away from the debate with that last sentence. Why does it matter to you so much? 99.99% of those who transgender are probably not even interested in sport, and have much bigger things on their minds. Like getting out of the body they were born in. I can't begin to imagine how confusing that must be - and then they finally get to be in the body that they identify with and someone turns around and tells them that that's not what they are - how do you think that would make them feel? Ashamed? Hurt? Confused? It's a very difficult subject, and banging heads on here won't solve it. I'm off out with the missus - leave you to it
I get that Beth, truly do. But you can't discriminate or we could find ourselves creating a sub-gender class, which I'm sure you, as a supporter of trans rights, would be against. There are no easy answers
You're on the wind up. I explained my views on trans etc and yet you still accused me of being discriminatory. I'll leave it too.
Unfortunately it isn't Kiwi... as Steels and Col have shown But Steels pointed out ... it is not relevant to the life of 99. 9% of transgender people, who don't care about elite sport, and do not want to participate Also as said earlier 99.9% of trans gender people are not rapists either, so that conversation is not relevant either But we, and the mainstream media, fixate on the outliers...and so alienate the ordinary transgender person who just wants to get on with their lives in the way they want to live it. I really dont have answers
So this is now making me think. It is an article about the swimmer Lia Thomas, who is a trans swimmer in the NCAA championship. On 17 March, Lia Thomas became the first openly transgender athlete to win America's top trophy in university sports when she swam to victory in the women's 500 yard (457 meter) freestyle race. Ms Thomas, 22, won first place in the National Collegiate Athletic Association's (NCAA) first division swimming championship, her final competition as a college athlete. She was also placed 4th and 8th in two other races To all those pushing this false narrative that Trans People have an advantage in sports, and are using Lia Thomas as "proof", let me lay down some stats here ... 1650yards Lia pre-transition: 14:54.765 Lia post-transition: 15:59.71 (lost 65 seconds) Male record: 14:12.08 (Kieran Smith) Female record: 15:03:31 (Katie Ledecky) She was 40 seconds behind the male record, now she is 56 behind the female 500yards Lia's best pre-transition, 4:18:72 Lia's current, 4:34:06 Female record (Katie Ledecky), 4:24:06 Male record (Kieran Smith), 4:06:32 200 Prior to transition 1:39.31 Male record, 1:29.15 After transition 1:41.93 Female record of 1:39.10 See a pattern here? Not advantage, consistency There's a reason that with all the Trans Women competing in sports for years, she is one of the only top ranking ones, because she's always been one of the top ranking. Other parts of the article, which was very long...before transitioning, Thomas was a longer distance swimmer, and Championship standard, where they were marked as 9th best in country. She has lost that endurance and is now swimming shorter distances. Her winning a medal has overshadowed that another swimmer Douglass broke 18 records... Incidentally Lia obeyed every rule the NCAA put in place, including waiting for 3 years before competing so the HRT would have a full and consistent effect. Definitely making me think
So what are you thinking ? Are you saying that a human born a male has no advantage over a human born a female ? Straight answer from me is yes…they do.
But it's the 99% that are punnished by having to compete against someone born with male attributes. Again too, you conflate two issues. Of course trans people and all others should be accepted into mainstream life. A separate issue and a much smaller one, but one we're discussing here is should they compete against someone born as and remaining a woman? Not the biggest issue facing mankind, but I was highlighting the way the trans community immediately shout 'transphobe' as soon as this is questioned. This has been completely born out by some of these responses. No one has asked how the vast majority are affected, only the minority. It should be both.
Again I agree with you a hundred percent Col. Just found it interesting..that everyone was shouting ( well the media at least)...how no woman has a chance against this athlete. Well got to say... I don't think men have many advantages over women, Stainsey. Got it good here... and since QPR ladies were formed, even that small grudge has been removed. Just born 40 years too early... but my granddaughters..I can see a proper number 9 and a stubby gary waddock forming already
Your answer doesn’t make a lot of sense Beth…. It would seem obvious to most I’m talking about a context in sport. Do you have an actual answer ?
Yes of course...in some sports( speed and strength).. And all depends on the people involved and levels... I could beat some men at badminton in open tournaments, and in fact once won an open tournament when 25 years old ...but i mainly often lost ( mainly due to height ...and yes women are often shorter than men)....but not always The point the article was making was that this athlete didn't "automatically win" because she grewup as a man...but lost 2/3 of her events she competed in...and was not outstanding in the event she won. In fact she had lost a lot of strength/ ability in transitioning.. and was not outstanding in the women's events compared to the athlete Dougless.. who was completely outstanding Media hype again...one thing I thought you were against Stainsey. As said in original post. I found it interesting..and made me think. If you look back a day..you will see my original post agreeing fully with Col about elite sport..you will find what you want me to say there...I just found this article interesting and food for thought
So yes, a human being born a man has an advantage in any physical sport, over a human being born a woman. Praise the lord…..we finally got there
You both need to check out the new sport that popped up a few months back, Box-minton. I've not read up on the rules but i'd pay to watch you two play.
So your point Stainsey is. And by the way...cancelling or threatening people like Sharon Davies for their views is completely wrong and should be stamped out we need to discuss this rationally. Everyone is entitled to their views...