Match Day Thread Arsenal vs United - Park life

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Treble, Jan 30, 2021.

  1. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Tactics are what you work on, on the training ground not before kick off. It's not just strikers either. Have you noticed against teams that defend, our players will play in front of them. Nobody makes runs or enough movement to pull the defence, make space for each other. Did you see Martial and Cavani running into each other time and time again yesterday? And if we're not doing that we'll get up to the edge of the box then pass sideways.

    And we're expecting Bruno to overcome all that on his own? And if he's unable to, then he's having a bad run of form? It's not like that at all. Get the tactics right, you'll see the best of Bruno.
     
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  2. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    So how have the tactics changed since we saw the best of Bruno?

    The fact is (regardless of what Ole or Bruno say) Bruno and Rashford are ****ed. You can tell by their movement and chasing down, tiredness also affects awareness and accuracy for spotting/making passes etc.
    When you watch the team over the last few games Cavani is the only one chasing defenders and the keeper down, he is even chasing back into our half to win the ball. Take that back six weeks or so and Rashford/Bruno would both be doing the same which kept teams in their half.
     
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  3. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    They haven't changed that's the point. A player of his quality will only get you so far when the tactics are so one-dimensional relying on the counter-attack which tbh is being overrated anyway. Of course tiredness will play its part but if we played with some strategy to work the opposition then it would at least not compund his tiredness and enable him to play better.

    At the moment we're expecting him to pull out Hollywood passes every game to save us because there's no chance we'll create much against teams who are well organised. And when he doesn't manage this unrealistic feat it's all labelled at tiredness rather than looking at our whole approach. The truth is we're asking more and more of him because we're running out of ideas.
     
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  4. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    How would you change the tactics to get through teams that sit back?
     
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  5. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    I'd probably ask Pep or Klopp as they seem to be able to manage it fine.

    But some things are fairly obvious.

    Picking the right team for starters,
    Coaching players like Greenwood, James, even Martial better in training so we actually have someone other than Rashford to take players on and dribble past them. Rather than stop and pass it sideways on the edge of the 18 yard box or back to the full-backs.

    Actually use the width of the pitch at pace, pulling the opposition out (that includes coaching Martial and Greenwood in their movement to pull defenders as well) so that our midfielders have the space to run through the middle, then have our wide players including our full-backs get the ball away to the them, rather than getting two thirds of the way up, then stop, take a touch, look up, signal to everyone you're about to pass in-field and expect our midfielders to then try and thread the ball through the eye of a needle as the opposition re-organise, usually resulting in passing it back out again sideways amounting to all impetus being lost.

    How about using more than one approach when we do get it out wide. As I said, attack the width at pace, play on the overlap on BOTH wings, give it to the midfielders to attack OR actually get a cross in. There's a novel idea. Coach our wide players to deliver a decent ball into the box and coach our attacking players (the likes of Pogba, Bruno, Martial, Greenwood even McTominay to get into the box in numbers. That would include coaching the movement of the likes of Martial, Greenwood to either pull the full-backs out or alternatively be in a position to pick up the second ball. And I've deliberately not included Rashford or Cavani in that because they're the only ones who consistently do get in there but get limited service.

    There is so much more we could be trying, but here's the real problem. All of what I've said is fine in itself, but the reason we won't do any of it is because ultimately the manager believes in a philosophy of playing not to lose. So we'll see much more of the pedestrian ****e knocking back and forth and sideways on the edge of the box, hoping Bruno picks a pass that unlocks the defence or Pogba scores a screamer. Because then we don't have to worry the opposition will counter attack us lol. And if it ends up being a draw, hey at least we didn't lose.
     
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  6. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    You watch a different game than me <laugh>

    Rashford and Shaw do stay wide and take men on, they also overlap quite a bit. We don't have that luxury on the right because Greenwood isn't a winger (though he does take men on and dribble into the box) and Bisakka is not very good at going forward either though he has improved a lot this season (hopefully Diallo will solve this).

    In games where teams sit back i would like to see greater use of Mata and Donny, one because of his guile the other for his movement and ****ing fast feet.

    McT often gets forward when we are attacking and gets into the box a fair bit but i agree not enough.
     
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  7. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Which is why I've deliberately not mentioned either. The problem is that they can't do it in isolation of all the other things I've mentioned. It's a combined strategy so you're not wholly dependent on playing one way in one area of the pitch, which is currently what we're relying on with them two.

    Other than that we'll knock it about, work the ball to the 18 yard box then rely on trying to work in tight spaces through a packed defence or passing it out to the right for no tactical advantage whatsoever.

    The point you make about Greenwood dribbling it into the box is a solo effort mostly. You won't see it resulting in a pass across the 6 yard box and often no players there to pass to anyway. We all know he's going to shoot. That is all down to coaching - him and the others, not just the strikers but the likes of Pogba and others from midfield. Like I've said, it's mostly about individuals pulling something rather than fashioning a well organised goal. They do happen, but it's something that evolves on occasion rather than something you see time and time again as a result of an obvious tactical approach. That's the difference between us and the likes of City or Liverpool.

    Agree about Donny and Mata. Fwiw, rumours are that Ole doesn't rate Donny and he'll be gone by this time next year. Shocking if true but this is coming from inside the club.
     
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  8. Chief

    Chief A Northern Soul
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    Said weeks ago we've a very good team and substitutes that is clearly poorly coached and managed.
    Nothing has changed that opinion, including when we went on a decent run and were top of the league.

    They are very definitely badly coached and managed.
     
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  9. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

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    That’s patently nonsense. A very good team doesn’t happen by itself. When the team plays well, the players are playing well without the coaching team’s input but when they play badly they are badly coached. <laugh>
     
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  10. Chief

    Chief A Northern Soul
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    It's quite clearly a talented squad packed with very good players. Hence, team.

    The coaching and tactics are (very often) ****.

    Did I really need to spell that out ffs?
     
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  11. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

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    So you really believe that putting together 25 talented players together without coaching can create a good team? Wow!

    As our record in the premiership reads 13 wins, 5 draws and 4 defeats, so you are saying our coaching and tactics were good on 13 occasions and rather or very **** on 9. Which is not too bad and keeping the team 2nd. <ok>
     
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  12. Chief

    Chief A Northern Soul
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    Yet is very limited and comes up short against obdurate opponents.

    Which has been proven time and again.

    Not sure what part of that you're no getting to be absolutely honest.

    No one says he hasn't developed a good team, in fact I've stated frequently his signings have all been very good.

    He's just not nearly a top drawer manager though, and Carrick and Phelan are definitely not of the higher level coaching wise it.

    It is not rocket science.
     
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  13. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

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    <ok>
     
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