Bending the knee is not sport.

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Woody, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. The Doodler

    The Doodler Active Member

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    It's given voice to the things that piss you off <laugh><laugh>
     
    #401
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  2. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    Where the kneeling originated, or was used in the past, is totally irrelevant ...

    ... it was most recently used in America in direct reference to how George Floyd died.

    It was copied in this country by 'the BLM movement' and taken up by the football authorities.

    And that's that.

    What Colin Kapernick did is the same gesture but people aren't copying him.
     
    #402
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  3. Comfy

    Comfy Well-Known Member

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    Personally I wouldn't do it but that doesn't make me a racist or anti BLM, everyone's got a choice including footballers. If they want to do it then it should have nothing to do with the fans in the ground or in their armchairs who boo it
     
    #403
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  4. Ozzymac

    Ozzymac Well-Known Member

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    Forgive me if i'm barking up the wrong tree but if someone has the right to protest then don't people also have the right to protest against the protest?

    In simple terms if the players want to kneel so be it, if the fans want to boo the kneeing then so be it as well?
     
    #404
  5. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    There are clear political elements to the 'protests' which are now being denied. It's claimed that the government is institutionally racist as well as the police force, etc. So how can anyone pretend these protests don't have a political content when they're asking the government to change things including the government?

    It's a political gesture, to some degree, and has no place in football hence why some people boo. You can be thrown out of a football ground for a Nazi salute which came from a political party. People would rightly boo anyone bringing those politics into football.

    I don't want politics or protests at football matches and I couldn't guarantee I wouldn't boo ...

    ... some would claim that makes me a racist, they're wrong.
     
    #405
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  6. Ozzymac

    Ozzymac Well-Known Member

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    And this is where it's a case of double standards. (let me make it quite clear that i despise the Nazis and everything that they stand for before i continue).

    The current trend is to kneel to show support for BLM. Some people agree that it is a good gesture, and let's be honest it's a gesture only.

    Some people like to fly the Palestinian flag as a gesture of support for their cause but again it's only a gesture.

    If someone was to fly the Nazi flag because of a percieved injustice would they be entitled to do so or would they be condemned as right wing extremist? I believe the latter as that is the way that society/media believes it should be. Is it right? (in my opinion yes). Is it fair? Probably not.

    I firmly believe that all politics/causes should remove themselves from sport, let the game (no matter which game it is) be just that, a game that people enjoy to watch.
     
    #406
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  7. clockstander

    clockstander Well-Known Member

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    The protest has gone on too long, and the cause has been damaged imo. which is a shame. Of course black lives matter, all lives matter, but constant knee bending or knee jerking is not the way forward, just the opposite.
     
    #407
  8. sad-eyed prophet

    sad-eyed prophet Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. I go to watch a football match,with people of all races included. I don't go to watch a political rally. It's my guess that most taking part are doing so because they're afraid of being called out on social media and the sanctimonious press if they don't.
    And that, in my opinion,is a root cause of a lot of the nonsense being perpetrated in our current society.And,there are a lot of people who don't seem to accept that freedom of speech and opinion can extend to both sides of any point of view,and everyone has a right to it.
     
    #408
  9. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    People keep saying that it's just 10 seconds so ignore it. What nonsense ...

    ... if someone stood outside my house with a 'Justice for paedophiles' placard they wouldn't get past 7 seconds before their arse hit the deck.

    The BLM type of people don't want to run youth clubs, tour the country speaking to various groups or do any of the hard graft. They just want to go out with their pals shouting at statues and kneeling down for a bit, hoping to get on the telly.

    As someone who's stood out for days selling poppies, served Christmas lunch in Salvation Army hostels and walked miles for church charities I could give them some advice about the hard slog.
     
    #409
  10. Comfy

    Comfy Well-Known Member

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    Your correct but I never said they weren't allowed to protest, I said everyone has a choice.
     
    #410

  11. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

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    Politics/Sport are intertwined, hence the Oil countries and other dictatorships use "sportwashing" to promote their countries.

    Individual sportsmen/women will also use their fame to promote what they see as injustices...

    Whether it was apartheid South Africa being isolated or Jesse's Owens sticking it to the Nazi's, or now various actions against racism... it is not going away.

    Atm booing at England taking the knee will just make it more entrenched, cos those booing wheter they like it or not, are judged rscist.

    I reckon if nobody took any notice, taking the knee would soon cease.
     
    #411
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  12. The Redbaron

    The Redbaron Well-Known Member

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    Tommy Smith for the USA in Mexico at the 1980 Olympic games.. Black Power salute.
     
    #412
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  13. LBW

    LBW Well-Known Member

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    Who judges them as racist out of curiosity? I don’t, does that make me racist ?
     
    #413
  14. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

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    The point is I believe, if they do not take the knee, it is also political, in that, it is saying we accept the current status quo as regards racism in England... ie it is not a problem or we do not care less..

    So it could be said those with that view are?
     
    #414
  15. LBW

    LBW Well-Known Member

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    Rubbish that mate, so does that make the players black & white who don’t take the knee racist? I believe some black players no longer take the knee or did stop because it had lost its impact. Taking the knee solves nothing, if racism is to be tackled in sports stadiums then quite simply arrest and prosecute the scum, then ban them for life. It won’t happen though because it would cost too much money to monitor and action. The fact is there was not as big an issue with racism in football as Sky, BBC etc have made it out to be. They jumped on the bandwagon after the American footballers done it. This taking the knee has put the country back decades in the tackling of racism and made matters far worse.
     
    #415
  16. cumbrianmackem

    cumbrianmackem Well-Known Member

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    Can't believe we're still discussing this garbage, if they want to take the knee do it in the dressing room before kick off like I said weeks ago, then they salve their conscience and don't fester their ideas on people who are sick of seeing and hearing about it.
    I won't be commenting on this issue again, it's been done to death imo.
     
    #416
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  17. The Doodler

    The Doodler Active Member

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    I don't agree with much of what you are saying and let's just say 'that's that'.

    Recently Mesut Ozil made a protest about the treatment of the Uigur's by the Chinese. The result was that China refused to screen Arsenal's home game against Man City. There were protests by fans in China and the authorities said that it was 'fake news'. More to the point, this effects the League's potential revenue stream and unsurprisingly Arsenal did not support his action.

    The booing is bad publicity for the global sport and the advertising media moguls will put pressure on the football owners to sort it out. In short, money makes the Premier League merry-go-round, so the current protest by kneeling will probably cease to stop the booing.
     
    #417
  18. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    They must be desperate to work out how to get out of the kneeling. More and more people are finding it to be inappropriate for one reason or another. It's worse, after the booing, because stopping now would make it look, in some eyes, as if they're 'backing down to racists'.

    It was stupid, imo, to jump on the bandwagon and now it's hard for them to jump off.
     
    #418
  19. Gordon Armstrong

    Gordon Armstrong Just another S.A.F.C. fan
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  20. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

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    Jordan Henderson has said fans booing England’s players for taking the knee achieves nothing and proves that the fight against racism is far from over.

    The row about the anti-racism action has threatened, in England, to overshadow the start of Euro 2020 and has led to Gareth Southgate’s players finding themselves on the end of an angry reaction from a section of supporters before games.
    There were jeers before England faced Austria and Romania in recent friendlies at the Riverside Stadium and there are fears that the dispute will rumble on when Southgate’s side meet Croatia in their Group D opener at Wembley on Sunday.

    Yet the backlash will not stop England taking the knee. Southgate made his case eloquently last weekend, and in an article published on Tuesday made clear his determination to keep using his position to raise awareness of society’s ills. Henderson has echoed his manager’s sentiments by saying that his teammates are more determined than ever to take the lead in the fight against discrimination. "I think it shows that if there are still people booing because we’re standing together against racism, there really still is a problem and we’ve still got to fight it and stand together” England’s vice-captain said. “It shows even more that we have to keep going, keep fighting it. From our side, it’s about being together and doing what we think is right.”
     
    #420
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