Off Topic Bill Nicholson Arms

Scottish manager? Looks like he joined the Southern League to break wage limits, so he probably brought his mates with him.

 

21 stone goalkeeper.....yikes

 

Fatty Foulke. Legend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Foulke_(footballer)

 

PPV is dead, for now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54932314

 

The old football museum had one of his shirts on display, it was a sight to behold

 

Nearly as big as Neil Ruddock's...

 

Must be something that they put in the whisky.

 

Most of the talent came from heavy industry & mining areas, where it was a way 'out'. Just as we don't get many boxers from Kensington or the Cotswolds. The decline of Scottish football follows the decline in those industries in Scotland.

 

That must be why Scotland's been replaced by the harsh street life of Belgium.

Rangers and Celtic destroyed Scottish football.
The British Government and Scottish FA helped, but they ruined the league/s and turned overseas viewers away in droves.

 

Born on this day 1934 David Graig Mackay one of the finest players to pull on our shirt

 

I would argue that the game has changed PNP so the qualities coming from the heavy industry are not so important now as they were. Rule and equipment changes have meant the rise of the clever skilled player who can be quite light weight.
Explain to me how Rangers & Celtic destroyed Scottish football. I see the same domination by a couple of teams in most European countries, in fact in most football nations only one or two teams rule the roost. Even the sectarian split is repeated throughout the world in Greece, Cyprus, Holland and South America for example. I don't think the Rangers Celtic tradition is a good thing and I don't support it but I cannot see how this has lead to the decline in Scotland. Incidentally the decline is slowly changing because of the indoor football centres opened in Scotland to try to encourage youngsters away from their computers. Climate is another factor that makes it harder to get the young outdoors playing. We are all used to a much softer life (in Europe) central heating, cars. Gone are the days I used to freeze at bus stops and freeze standing on football terraces. I even remember playing football with feet like ice cubes because of the hob nail boots you wore. Is there another factor I am missing?

 

There's domination and then there's domination.
Rangers and Celtic have won all but 19 of the 124 titles in Scottish league history and most of the cups.
The last non-Old Firm title win was by Alex Ferguson's Aberdeen in 1984/85 and there's rarely been a challenge to it in the SPL years.
This is reflected in the attendances in Scotland and the finances for clubs outside of the Old Firm.

Some of that isn't the fault of the two Glaswegian clubs, as they should be trying to win as many trophies as possible and attract the most fans.
Grabbing all the cash, investing it badly and failing to build worthwhile academies to compete with dubious signings is, though.
Going bust in a duopoly is shameful.

They have all the power in Scottish football and the results are plain.
It's a downward spiral when you create such mismatches, as nobody wants to watch them and the money goes.
This leads to worse football, less viewers, less money and so on. Why would a neutral watch the SPL?

 

OK so why did that same domination produce such a standard of player in the past. Apart from the last 40 years Scotland has produced far more quality players than England pro - rata. They still pull huge crowds only United competed in England and the rest of the field, teams like Motherwell and Hibs still pull big crowds. Now of course they cannot compete with PL teams in terms of transfers but in the past they didn't need to because they relied on local talent. I don't think it explains that loss of quality in Scotland. It's ironic that we should be discussing this when Scotland has just qualified after many years.

 

The Old Firm had to produce top talent to maintain their dominance in the past. Famously so in some obvious cases.
That's no longer the case and they don't do it any more.
Their large attendances were also more relevant to football finances, while it's now more to do with TV money and sponsorship.

Hibs and Hearts pull decent crowds and so do Aberdeen, considering their location, but Motherwell's are pretty poor.
The 17k-odd of the Edinburgh clubs is around the Championship average. Aberdeen's 13k isn't far off.
Motherwell's 5.5k is similar to those of Kilmarnock, St. Mirren or a bit less than Swindon.

Do Scottish kids grow up wanting to play for the Old Firm nowadays or do they look to foreign clubs?

 

Or is there an issue with grass roots football and the development of youngsters? Their national team looks better than in the last 10/15 years but still unlikely to succeed against better countries.

 

Both.

 

How's Hutton doing?

 

If you know Motherwell you would see why that is a good attendence

 

Not a surprise, have you seen their mascot?

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