Was just reading through this... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48217557 But despite his interest in remaining in the game, Chantelle says "as much as he'd love to, he's been put off applying because I don't think there's much for him". "I think the clubs should do more - giving the black players better jobs. Look at Sol Campbell, look how many caps he has and he's managing at Macclesfield. "They need the big clubs. Why not the England manager's job? "I think they definitely need to make more jobs available for black players and Emile would be the first there. "All the good jobs seem to go to United or Chelsea players - which is a shame because they've all played at the same level," Chantelle added. I don't really get this side of things but I'm also happy to listen to other opinions here, Why should there be special rules and support for black people in football? It should be a level playing field where the best candidate plus the interview gets the job regardless of race. "The principles of a voluntary Rooney Rule have been formally adopted by the England team set-up. This will ensure that at least one BAME candidate will be interviewed for every role as long as such a candidate has applied and meets the recruitment criteria. This could mean that a more qualified white person misses out because there is a rule that one BAME manager has to be considered. I understand that if there is racism within the game that something needs to be done to correct this but it seems that adding a rule means that you are not actually dealing with the problem?
all it means is that they will at least interview them as all the evidence suggests they will not be invited to interview due to bias either conscious or subconscious.
it isn't a quota though just an attempt to fix one of the root causes. It is similar to the guaranteed interview for disabled jobseekers though what most don't/won't grasp about that scheme is the applicant must fulfil the basic requirements as laid out in the advert i.e, Qualifications
1. caps do not equal manager jobs. 2. what has heskey done so far to make himself a coach? seriously.. i don't know. that should be spelled out if only to strengthen his case 3. all the good jobs do to utd or chelsea players???? thats just silly. lampard is at derby. phil neville got england womans team job. scholes messed up the oldham job due to the massive chip on his shoulder. 4. If you don't apply or use your network or even build a network you won't get a job. We know this. all industries know this The reality here is that MOST managers at the upper end which is where this person is pitching her husband go to foreign coaches. If you want a job say in championship even as a coach at academy level you need to get qualified and then use your network and good will to get a job. Heskey donated a big wedge to save Leicester from ruin. I'd have thought he'd get a job coaching there if he was up to the task. I'd offer robbie fowler as a man nobody in this country was willing to touch. LFC gave him a little role part time just to talk to players. Did heskey ever ask us to give him a hand? I'm fully sure if he came in and met inglethrope and explained his ambition and ability he'd be welcome to build some experience here. So... just a few examples: 1. Tony adams. Thought he was gods gift... really couldn't do it. 2. Roy keane.. same did ok at sunderland for a little bit then it fell apart. 3. Gerrard.. at rangers. Bit of a nark if i'm honest and i think he'll piss players off. 4. Lampard. at derby. doing "ok" 5. garry neville. Was mates with valencia lad. should never have got the job but did. binned off. 6. fowler... laughed out of town in this country due to his partying past. took job in australia. the fact is theirry henry gave it a go, went for too high a level and got binned off too. Sol campbell is a man who's had his troubles and publically. Its never going to be easy get that job Why has southgate got the england job?? failures by old school and he's walked in from u21s. why has phil neviile the womens job... no idea.. ................................................ Now this aside, as i think this article is a bit of a whine, This is a very serious issue. When you've people in very "privileged" positions like Rose saying its a waste of his time or saying he hates the industry you have to wonder. Is he hating the meat grinder that the industry is for all or is it specifically race. Saying theres no point even doing a badge is taking the wrong attitude and not giving leadership to others who are younger. What we need is for there to be more people stepping up not being selfish and saying theres no point. For me being a top footballer means you ARE selfish. you only think of yourself and what you are doing and being the best you can be. It has been a long time since you would say that the game has had more than adequate distribution of cultural representation. I would in fact say that there are more players today of... well... non anglo saxon colour to have more managers. Whats rio ferdinand doing? Punditry. David james... video games?? Ashely cole.. still playing a bit John barnes. tried the gig didn't work out. Again picking big jobs too soon rather than building up. ian wright. punditry Tried to get the gig by being a joker so has made a name for himself that way but now wants to be taken seriously. Ince : got several decent jobs. Maybe unfairly sacked in one. collymore? not suited at all. doing hackery. les ferdinand? andy cole? defoe still playing Michael thomas for us and arsenal? dyer - pundit. jenas - pundit johnson - retiring now dublin - is he a coach? I recall he got sick? SO perhaps its high time someone just said ok... theres quite a few of you, are you SERIOUS cos you earned a lot of money in your career so far but if you are serious lets support through the england youth coaching structure or through clubs. We have to break out of this conscious and unconscious bias at the top but the players themselves have to stop making thier own blockages. however the reality is: 1. Guardiola 2. Klopp 3. Pochettino 4. Sarri 5. Emry 6. Solksjaer 7. silva 8. gracia 9. santo 10.Rafael BenÃtez 11. Hasenhüttl 12. Stewiert 13. Pelligrini the **** in the prem then 14. Howe 15. rodgers 16. dyche 17.hughton (just sacked) 18. parker - at least coached at youth level in fulham. (and man before was not foreign coach) 19. warnock 20. hodgson So in reality... Theres 13 foreign coaches in the prem.... i'm not going to be racial commentary on any of their back grounds. the point i am making is that there are 6 managers from Britain in the league and you could only describe their clubs as small. Rodgers just took the biggest job for a british manager from a foreign coach. to expect to walk into a big club nowadays as a player no matter what the race is being silly. You have to work for it.
I don't want to trivialise the point in question but you don't see many black goalkeepers either. There are a lot of black players in the game so you would expect there to be more goalkeepers and coaches. Are the majority not interested in either position or not good enough?
If you look rationally at this and the female question also.... time is the issue. There was bad racism in the 1980s. thats what i know about. there are many players from the 1980s who are well known and earlier who are pioneers in effect. none of these have stuck with the game after. This i think we all would agree is very probably racism too. Fashanu for example ran businesses and was on tv after wimbledon. Our own john barnes (my hero) tried but made mistakes in management. Kenny tried his best to help him make it too. The amount of players has certainly increased and increased to the point now that it is very much representative. Other nationalities such as our asian communities are extremely poorly represented (even in cricket terms as well) still. We are now looking at a lot of players retiring or have already retired as outline before. We have had a number of kids playing in goal. we bought David james and he did well for a number of clubs. The issue for me is it is a single position and you play or you don't so goal keeping could be a position where bias could play a part. Equally and like all british players its also a position open to global competition s a position where the top teams buy form all over... who knows. For me people cannot say why bother or i won't get badges cos i'll be discriminated against if they want to do the job. They have to shame people they think are not giving the chances. Network.... talk to the top coaches... look for opportunity... (these are NOT skills footballer have cos thier agents do this for them.) For me if i were say... whoever, do we have anyone of near retirement age bar milner? I'd be talking to my club now... or my old club like leeds and trying to see if theres openings. Do i need much of a wage? no... just enough to make them not take me for granted. Where do i want to be with my family for example.. leeds? ok so i get in there and make my interest known. I do my coaching badges. I stalk jurgen klopp for how things work. I ask to come in and sit in on planning meetings if they let me. etc etc etc. If theres a 31 or 32 year old player of any colour at any club they have to have the skills to go do this. If we look back...... Keegan, Dalglish. barnes, fowler, owen, Gerrard, torres, suarez, sterling (for 6 months),salah..... the fans don't make distinctions these days. they idolise players. these guys need to realise that when sterling speaks people are listening... but most importantly when someone like rose says whats the point they are listening too. Dare i say it we need more sterlings. he's called the media on their bias. He's called the fa to account and uefa. he's not pulled any punches. he's also not perfect and shouldnt need to be to do it. I reckon the time is ripe for people to make that leap but as i showed above. 14 out of the 20 managers in the prem are not from the UK. it is a global market. I think the rise of the technical director might just help this as clubs need to grow their own coaches now as well. Its so bloody expensive for utd to sack the lot and rehire ever 2 years chasing city
I agree with most of this - still not sure on Sterling being regarded as a role model of any kind. He personally was abused, he addressed it, where was his voice when teammates were getting it. He's had the platform for a while and not used it, now he has so well done I suppose. Would he have spoken out if he was at any other club without the might of the untouchables behind him, I honestly don't know. With a well established manager merry go round, it's really hard for anyone new to breakthrough. Time will tell if Gerrard and Lampard make it in the prem. Any young black prospective coach would do well to talk to them.
It's bullshit imo. Nobody in this day and age is opting for someone because of their skin colour ffs. Just like with gender paygap. No one is opting to employ a female because "it's cheaper"
You just don't know that. And this is the 'day and age' grown men are making monkey gestures at black players ...
The 2011 census found that 92% of the population identified as 'White British'. At the start of the 2017/18 season, 33% of players in the premier league were of black ethnic minority, up from 16.5% when the premier league was created. If you really wanted to be a dick, and going from most arguments stemming from how there needs to be proportionality for races in the game, why aren't we crying out for more white players in the leagues to make it more reflective of society? Maybe because most people don't give a **** about skin colour and just want the best players. Same for managers. There definitely was racism years ago, but as more black players filter through the game, more will go into management and coaching. Squads are more diverse in race, nationality and religion than at any other point in history. Give it another 10 years and those players will filter into management and coaching. Can't just brand a 'racism card' and jump years into the future in terms of social progression and it tires me to hear these arguments from black players who simply don't get a management job at a big team. Maybe, just maybe, it's because they've either go zero experience or were ****e at the lower clubs? There is racism within the game, but I think it's mostly at the fan level. I honestly can't imagine any top club (And I mean most of the teams within Europe's top leagues) refusing to even interview a candidate because of the colour of their skin, irrespective of their credibility as a manager. Also, I really dislike the Rooney rule and I've said so a few times when this discussion as come up. I don't like positive discrimination and don't see how it helps; people will know they've only been shortlisted because they're the 'non white' individual - that's not good for morale. It encourages board members to look at ethnicity rather than qualifications and make proactive selections from that ( "He's black so we'll interview him, he's white and we've got 5 already") which doesn't help. Besides, if the Rooney rule is there to encourage boards to interview a minority candidate, a racist panel still won't appoint the fella so what's the point? Needs a better solution. Educating fans and banning repeat offenders would be the priority.
I think you've missed the point here. The Rooney rule is not about giving the job to a black person just an opportunity to be interviewed. after the interview any of the other 5 or ten white guys will still get the job. The Rooney rule was introduced because black people were not being short listed for interview never mind getting the job. Like in many sports in the US football here has many black players in the top teams. It is almost impossible to list teams without at least one black player in their first 11. Some even have a majority of black players. But why do we only have one or two black managers at the top level and only a few in the lower leagues? Some here would argue that they are not manager material. Hang on. Are we saying that just because someone is black he cannot manage? Or is it more likely that they are not given the opportunity to manage? Why do people ,owners take a chance with top white players but not top black players ? The discrepancy is too obvious to be ignored for much longer. It should be unacceptable to anyone who values justice and equality of opportunity. No this is not discrimination on favour of black people just having the right to be CONSIDERED (not even given ) for a job. FFS I despair sometimes at the views of some people here.
People still discriminate against women.... please note I am careful to say people as women are as guilty of it. We should note the gender pay gap is often purely down to negotiating. Women in my experience don't try it on enough and they take the offer which is low balling them.
Or maybe it's because they're around 40 years old and should now be looking into getting their qualifications and learning the ropes having finished their playing career. Most managers are former players. Go back 20 years to when these black players were at their peak and there simply weren't as many in the leagues as there are now. Lets say a small number of them might consider coaching, another smaller proportion attempt it and an even smaller proportion do well. The numbers add up when you look at where we were. Jump forward to now - 33% BEM players in the premier league and you've got good chances of those players becoming managers and coaches in the next 10-15 years. Things move on naturally. You can't wave a magic wand and blame a racism card at everything.
Age mate... we are in an era now where there should be more coming but equally if you've the roses saying why bother and an easy route to punditry a lot just don't. It's obvious the number of coaches needs to increase first. It's the same argument for women mps. Whres the women councillors to have more women mps. It's not about famous players jumping into management it's about all comers getting into coaching and if black people in general can become coaches of local sides and clubs etc etc
Sorry but this is where you are wrong. This is far from a magic wand. This is a little step to redress that imbalance. A magic wand would promptly get the proportion of black managers up significantly. This rule will do nothing of the kind. It will take decades for the imbalance to be sorted. There are many people who have similar views to yours. That is it will sort itself out eventually. So we will have many black candidates being interviewed as a matter of obeying the rules and ticking the boxes with no real intent of employing them . But at least it gives them some hope and for those who are really talented they've got a chance to impress someone. How do you get a job if you cannot even get short listed because the owners have got a closed mind?
Do you seriously think chairman are not singing black managers on the grounds that they're black? Really?
