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Caro Senhor Villa-Boas...

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by redwhiteandermblue, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. notsosmartspur

    notsosmartspur Well-Known Member

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    All your trust will not make JD learn to be a lone striker in a 433, he can't even learn to stay onside!, nor will it speed up Daws...I could go on. Not all players can learn everything, don't be fooled into that one is all I'm saying, I'm not picking on you, but Luke is sort of right. :) <ok>
     
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  2. Roo

    Roo Well-Known Member

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    how have you come to this conclusion after 3 games? He was quality for Swansea last season. He's just not found his rhythm yet, like many others.

    everyone witnessed how dangerous he was last season from set pieces. - as well as link up play and shots from outside the box.

    one scored against us if i remember correctly?
     
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  3. totsfan

    totsfan Well-Known Member

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    agree Roo,it will take more than 3 games to build up an understanding with the others
     
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  4. Spurm

    Spurm Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you are picking on me :tongue: Its debate ain't it? I don't have to agree with you in the same way you don't agree with me.
    Personally i do think Defoe could play up front on his own if we have the 3 behind him push up closer to him. Certainly if we are pinging in balls to him from 30+ yds away and expecting him to hold it up then we are doomed. I am very interested to see Dempsey with Defoe. Dempsey has strength and height while not playing as a centre forward. That "partnership" (not really a strike duo, more 2 of a 4/5) could work. Defoe is clinical in the box and the new system could create more chances for him than the old system of swinging in balls from the wings.

    Similarly for Daws, if his CB partner is pacy then he could play the high line. You don't need both CBs to have pace. Also, the keeper has a role to play here. He needs to be a "sweeper keeper" and get the hell off his line. Yeah, there is a lob risk sometimes but its a low success play for the other team.
    2 slow CBs and you're in trouble though.

    I'm still optimistic we have the personnel to compete with this system.
     
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  5. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I think Defoe can only play up on his own if he gets the right service, pinging long/ high balls into him is pointless, he needs the ball to be out wide for the wingers to whip in the balls low into the box or find him on the edge of it where he can then take a touch and release his stinging shot. In honesty though, he works better with a partner and so I'd still be wary of him bein a lone striker even if the tactics suited him.

    Whether we play with a high line or not, I still think Dawson needs to be in the squad at least. He's a great centre back and a leader and if he can't contribute on the field he can be of great help in the dressing room.
     
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  6. Spursguru

    Spursguru Active Member

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    People forget how long it has taken for City to get this good at this system. Look at how many class players and (not so class managers) they have been through and they still missed out on the champs league to us in the first year, and it took a late run in the second to come 3rd. If Andre is to succeed to anything like what we want he will need time. Mancini needed it and he had unlimited money, with Tevez and Yaya at his disposal.

    So anyone who thinks we will a) adapt with the current players b) do it anytime soon are misguided.

    Ultimately us developing a style of play like Barca I think is Levy's goal, and this makes sense as it enables you to lose a manager and replace easily like swansea have done with Martinez, sousa, rodgers and now whats his face. It also will enable us to target certain traits in our youth team, and bring them on, rather than it being a random lottery of who might make it or not.

    We have a world class training ground, a very talented manager, and new stadium on the way, are well run financially (to the point where we can sustain our selves and league placing, and squad level without much outlay) and have a great squad.

    Our manager is learning, our players are learning....and we shoiuld learn to be patient. If he fails he will go, if he wins we are happy, so why not show some love all the same.

    You only have to see how great the Stoke fans are or the geordies to see what a great atmosphere can do. <cheers>

    (I'll get of my soapbox now) <laugh>
     
    #26
  7. notsosmartspur

    notsosmartspur Well-Known Member

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    Personally i do think Defoe could play up front on his own
    Never for me, he's 29, he's already been tried every which way and is still considered by all as not capable. Clinical in the box...we're watching different players! His movement and awareness is crap, and is one of the most unintelligent footballers I've seen, couldn't find space if he was out there on his own! he's too short, crap in the air, and selfish, not getting his head up enough, but thats because he generally doesn't want to pass, he wants to get half a yd to get a shot off.

    Similarly for Daws, if his CB partner is pacy then he could play the high line. I think Chelsea last term proved you do. JT was really exposed, cute teams would target Daws imo, but I do agree about the keeper needing to adapt aswell. <ok>
     
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  8. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I agree in principal with what you're saying SG but I think this learning stage is what is annoying most Spurs fans. In my opinion and naturally I can't prove it but I think we could have improved on last season's performances had we kept Harry and his formations/ style of play. I personally feel we've taken a few steps back by bringing in a manager who thus far chooses to play in a different style to what the players have been using over the past 3 years and therefore our aspirations of a top 4 finish seem harder than ever at the moment. On paper I believe we still have one of the strongest squads and more than capabale of a top 4 finish BUT having to learn a brand new system along with a few new faces coming in is too much of an ask at the moment, as well as the new manager needing time to see who he thinks will fit his new system best, I just think it's far too much hassle which could have been avoided had we just kept Harry. Harry said himself on MOTD that Dembele was a player he was looking at, Sigurdsson and Vertonghen I think were targets under the Harry regime too and no doubt Levy was the one who chose to bring in Dempsey at the 11th hours and so I think we've changed far more than what was needed.

    That being said, it's done now, we have the new manager (regardless of whether I rate him or not), we have a new style, we have new faces and we need to understand that this year is probably going to be a frustrating season. What worries me more than anything is, if we do finish outside the top 4 again, I really can't see us hanging on to Bale, I know he signed a new deal a few weeks back but we all know contracts mean jack these days and he's publicly admitted in his interview with BBC a few months ago that he wants Champions League football and so not only does it mean the potential loss of yet another star player if things don't go to plan but it then also means the chances of improving are going become more and more difficult.

    Lets hope AVB can shun the doubters (which admittedly includes myself) and reach the potential and live up to the hype that saw him regarded as the hottest managerial prostpect in European football.
     
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  9. Spursguru

    Spursguru Active Member

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    Completely agree
     
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  10. Spursguru

    Spursguru Active Member

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    I too wish we could have suck with Harry, as a couple of years of being a good team could have done wonders for a) club confidence b) global apeal.

    However, it was Harry that f***ed it up by being an idiot. Demanding a new contract in the press when Levy was in the US because his wife/mum was ill is stupid, the courting of the England job was stupid, he constantly put himself above the club, he insulted Spurs fans calling them idiots, the signing of Saha and Nelson was completely lacking in long term aspiration, and his chopping and changing of tactics was idiotic. This was not a man we could build with, and would have had to be replaced in the coming years anyway.

    I didn't want him to go, but I feel he brought it on himself.
     
    #30

  11. Spurm

    Spurm Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough.
    A number of managers have paid a pretty penny for Defoe over the years so i'm still not entirely sure he's as bad as you make out :grin:
     
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  12. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I suppose when you put all those together you can't really argue with the fact he was sacked.

    A shame as I think had he not demanded the contract, he may well have still been here as the rest are all forgivable in my opinion, even calling Spurs fans idiots (some are f*ck sake! <laugh>) but p*ssing off Levy especially when it was well documented (at least with Spurs fans anyway) that he was going through some private family issues probably wasn't the best of ideas.

    Though I'll never say a bad word about the man, for me he was the one that finally took us to the level we were desperately craving during the Jol/ Ramos era's and I personally feel he's up there with our best ever managers, even if he doesn't have a trophy to his name, he really did take us from rock bottom to becomming one of the league's most feared teams as well as arguably the most attractive and entertaining on the pitch.

    Lets hope AVB can push on and take us a step higher in the long run, his visions are promising... I just hope his tactics and methods can follow suit.
     
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  13. Spursguru

    Spursguru Active Member

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    Agreed! <ok>

    I loved the swagger we had last year. I've never seen us have it before. There were times where I knew we would win from the way we were playing.
    It went sour though when we were so obviously deflated following the stupid formation at the goons, and utd's win.
     
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  14. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

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    Correct. He started to believe in his own infallibility. Which was purely in his own mind. In more generic terms, he got too big for his boots!.
     
    #34
  15. redwhiteandermblue

    redwhiteandermblue Well-Known Member

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    I understand and to some degree share concerns that it may be inappropriate or worse for fans to tell a manager what to do, especially one who's been very successful. I also, believe me, have no great opinion of my own knowledge of football--haven't followed it for long enough; most of what I know I've learned from other posters.

    I'm hoping for something like a middle path--I'm not hoping AVB will somehow make no changes. I'm suggesting the switch to a pressing, Barca-esque 4-3-3 wait till we get Moutinho (or suitable playmaker), and that he use a style better suited to what we have in the mean time, because it will get better results and win over the fans and maybe the players. On the more negative side, however much any of us love AVB, playing two defensive mids at home against West Brom will do nothing for his chances of guiding our future. We'd be much more tolerant of audacity.

    Of course, fans voicing their preferences is unlikely to have any influence whatsoever on any manager. But it does no harm to voice them--I hope! And the thread has had the unexpected but welcome result of hearing more of you talk in a more in-depth way about strategy, tactics and formations. I think SG summed up Harry well. Finally, thanks for the Portuguese, HBC--very impressive.
     
    #35
  16. notsosmartspur

    notsosmartspur Well-Known Member

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    He's certainly an enigma, he gets goals no question, but thats from the amount of shots he actually takes, clinical means if you only get two chances in a game you take one. JD needs about 10 before he'll take one, unless he's in one of his 'hot' moments. Service to him has to be catered for, as in he only thrives on specific passes, basically into feet. Lets look at Drogba, just about one of the best lone strikers you'll ever see. It doesn't matter what you give him, high ball, low ball, over the top, into feet, it doesn't matter. For a midfielder he must be a dream to play with, because you only have to knock your pass in his general direction and he'll deal with it. You've already said JD may be better 'if 'the other mids are closer to him, its all if,if if, with him. AVB has worked at close quarters with both these strikers, and if he can't see the blatant difference, that is a worry for me.<ok>
     
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  17. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

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    I agree about Drogba. For me, he was so powerful that he could fend off the vast majority of central defenders easily. Defoe is a completely different type of player. Yes, he's limited. But, the facts speak for themselves - he scores goals.
     
    #37
  18. notsosmartspur

    notsosmartspur Well-Known Member

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    Very true nsis, but there are goals and goals, everyone knows stats can be misleading, and I feel his are. His goals for example could be 1 in a 2-1 loss, the 4th in a game already won 3-1, you don't see a winner v United though do you! Michael Owen has played at 3 elite clubs in his career, yet didn't score more than 20 in any season, but his goals won matches. Its something else to consider. <ok>
     
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  19. Ghoddle10

    Ghoddle10 Active Member

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    because of his performances or lack of them

    and it depresses me, because i really rated him

    hope he turns it around

    PS I don't think JD can play as a lone striker in the Prem, ever

    Been saying it for years, and he continues to prove me right again and again and again, which in one way is a shame but it is inevitable, considering how he lacks the physical attributes and necessary skill set.
     
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  20. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

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    True. But then to be fair to JD, I can't remember the last time any of our players scored the winner against Utd.
     
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