Off Topic Colstons Statue - Again

This is the type of organisation going into the criminality that the police are dealing with.

 

Hopefully the normal decent citizens will do the complete opposite..

 

I agree RoD, the issue I have is with them being banned. IMO we should all use restraint until it is over, but to ban them is dangerous, it would be interesting to know what your parents views are.

 

My issue is the organisers should be held fully responsible.

They should be made to fully risk assess the dangers to protesters reference social distancing and provide adequate stewards to ensure this, they should also fully risk assess the chances of violence and damage caused by a minority attaching themselves to such protests and if they cannot satisfy those points, either cancel or if they go ahead face huge consequences.

Why not just have a rally somewhere out of the way?, why the need to march?

Also if they must march, then the police select the route.

 

I'm sure they will be.

 

In other words ban them by default, then anyone against the particular cause would just have to ensure they send their own trouble makers along.

 

The police stated that around 400-500 of the aggressors appeared in late afternoon? bearing in mind this protest was started [ nationwide ] to be "organised" about a week before? this group of criminal minded individuals must have waited closer to the day before they picked the destination? Bearing in mind demo's took part all over the country on Sat and Sun Bristols previous passiveness must have been a big incentive.
there wont be anything like the 400 arrests that are due!.... or the 40 that appear on media pictures as being "pro active" [ likely a lot more ]. Sentencing will be based? on more serious charges than the EC fiasco … already attempted murder! assault of a police officer are prison terms? criminal damage regarding the police station not so clear! However the doors were locked and it could construed that smashing windows to get in may have been linked to an attempt to gain entry to cause physical damage/harm to individuals within! …. 5 years out in 2 .....10 years out in 5

 

Why absolve organisers from all responsibility? They have a public duty to ensure what they organise does not impact upon the vast majority of law abiding citizens and descend into violence and damage.

PS:- There is a similar 'kill the bill' demo planned for Nottingham on Saturday, if that once more turns violent (which it will), are you advocating that these demos be allowed to continue?

 

I’ve no issue with demonstrations adhering to rules and planned routes etc, but if you deliberately make them so difficult to organise that you affectively ban them then you are defeating the whole principle of the right to protest, which I believe would suit you anyway.

As I repeatedly say I wouldn’t attend, I think people should refrain from attending and of course I completely condemn violence of any kind. But to ban protests IMO is wrong and counterproductive

 

They should also be targeting the law firms who make loads of money from defending the undefendable !

 

It wouldn't suit me as I would never go within a mile of a protest march.

My point is (and one you are evading) organisers should be held far more responsible for the outcome of said protests.

And you seem to be advocating that when inevitably the Nottingham protest descends into violence aimed specifically at the police that they should still be allowed? perhaps you think a police officer potentially being killed at one of these protests would be a sacrifice towards democracy?

 

The point you seem to be either missing or avoiding is banning them won’t make them go away, it will escalate them.

I’m for peaceful demonstrations, I believe they are, and will be legal within any civilised democracy, it’s only dictatorships that ban them. That’s no coincidence, would you advocate we live in a dictatorship? One that only agrees with your views , because you wouldn’t be able to voice your views if they varied from the official line.

 

No what I advocate is people take responsibility for their actions.

As in if you organise a protest you should have within a 'civilised society' a duty of care to everybody involved in the protest including the police and innocent people going about their lawful business and if you fail in that duty of care, there has to be consequences.

 

The Tories bill can be viewed as an attempt to censure those they dislike. Perversely views that frequently who would like to censure others via their identity politics.

Protest is freedom of expression and speech no matter how ludicrous for both left and right. Push back should be to maintain everybody's freedom v becoming ever more authoritarian.

 

The point you seem to miss is I agree with you that in the pandemic protests shouldn’t go ahead , but only on the principle that it almost impossible to social distance.

others disagree, who am I to impose my will on others? , who’s to say I’m right and they’re wrong. Sometimes the greater good overrides, there are many instances throughout the centuries where unrest has achieved many of the rights we cherish today.

 

Name one civilised society where these rules apply , and why should we have to just because Jiffie on not606 Bristol City thinks we should.

 

Completely agree , a balance, both left and right and any shade in between , hopefully it keeps us somewhere in the middle.

 

And who are 'they' to impose their will on the vast majority of people and suffer no consequences.

You might remember 18 months or so ago extinction rebellion had been in discussions with the police about what they would be allowed to do without police intervention and then went to arbitarily closed down the M32. The result was a son not being able to be at his dying fathers bedside and worse than that a seriously brain injured young man was held up in an ambulance and had to be rescued by helicopter and ended up brain dead. Surely the organisers should have been held responsible for their incredibly selfish ignoring of what was agreed for their protest.

Or again are those 2 people and potentially dead police officers casualties of war?

 

Unfair.
He is definitely not on his own.
I'm sick tired and weary of protests :
a/ because there's a pandemic first and foremost.
b/ these 'protests' get hijacked by nutters hell bent on violence and destruction.

It's all well and good espousing liberty etc but just for once put a police uniform on then tell us all how you feel.
If organisers can't control those who attend then they should be accountable.
I'm fed up with this woke society.

 

Any action we take has unseen consequences, I’ve been involved in accidents that have held the traffic up, I may have even caused some, are you seriously suggesting I should be held responsible for any unintended consequences the delay may have caused people.,

Playing devils advocate if we don’t do something to prevent the planet overheating millions of lives will be lost.