Off Topic Coronavirus and NOTHING to do with football thread

The ironic thing is that Russia twice tried to get into NATO Frenchie - Gorbachov wanted it in 1992 and Putin wanted it in 2000 - had the West taken up this initiative and not taken every other East European country apart from Russia we might not be in this mess now.

 

This is what might have been view. What would Russia be today if Gorbachov had not been deposed because of his opening up to the West? The idea that Russia can win this war seems unreal. Much of the equipment they are now using is outdated, and their private armies are in revolt over lack of supplies. At this stage any idea of compromise and partition seems to be beyond the horizon, To stop the killing a Russian withdrawal would be the quickest route to achieve this desired result.

 

1. It wasn't a coup, it was a revolution. There's a huge difference, the Ukrainians wanted to align themselves with the EU and kick out the corrupt Russian puppet in charge. It was nothing to do with the US.
2. You said you were concerned there would be nazis in tanks in Ukraine after the war and Ukraine would be a threat to their neighbours (Ukraine has never attacked anyone)
3. This isn't true. You have no evidence because it's lies. We covered this already and you're still bringing it up.
4. He's stating facts. Why do those facts upset you so much?
5. Russians were moved there by the USSR. They can go back to Russia if they're not happy being Ukrainian. They voted to be part of Ukraine when the USSR dissolved. Russia funded and caused the LPR/DNR ****show, this has been widely admitted by several senior Russian sources.
6. It has nothing to do with NATO. Russia is right next to Alaska, Baltics are part of NATO and Finland have now joined. Ukraine joining made no difference.
7. The Kremlin owns many politicians across the world. She has no reason to constantly defend Russia. I don't have proof that she takes Russian money, it's the most logical conclusion to make though.
8. You attack Ukraine and make excuses for Russia.

There is no point in gifting land to Putin, he will just come back for more. Ukraine will win this war, reclaim their lands and join NATO. It's the only solution to stop Putin. You are more concerned for the handful of Russians living in the Donbas than the Ukrainians that live there, why?

 

Stopped clock syndrome... That said, I'm still waiting on the orange gimp across the pond to be truthful about something, anything. But then again, he cheats at golf so I'm not holding my breath!

Anyway, I finally got around to watching the OP speech, which starts well enough when talking about the munitions workers rights and profiteering, but she is fundamentally, if not fractally wrong, about everything else.
If Ukraine falls, who's next? Georgia? (again!) The Baltic states? Finland? This needs to end with russian forces entirely within russia. Crimea is part of Ukraine, so the navy can sail off too.

 

I don't have time to answer all of this, nor do I think it worthwhile but your last sentence I will briefly answer - I value all lives equally regardless of nation, religion or skin colour. Can you honestly say that ethnic Russians living in Ukraine will be safe after this is over ? Or will there be reprisals on a massive scale - if you want them to live in peace then separate them - just as happened between India and Pakistan. A future Ukraine must acknowledge that it is a multi ethnic country with Ukrainian, Russian, Polish, Hungarian and Romany living there and not the monocultural land you are claiming it to be, and they are claiming themselves to be.

 

I guess I should apologise for starting (or re-starting?) this argument - my “wondering about the EU” comment wasn’t a response to the MEP’s words per se - it was about the news article linked underneath them. I profess to knowing nothing about the past and present history between Russia and Ukraine - but have frequently heard EU representatives state that the incidence of war within the EU is zero since its inception. Yet here they are, without consultation, making a decision which ranks right up there with ones made by the UK’s war-warmongering government.


I don’t profess to know what the answer to this particular conflict is, but as a pacifist I’m certain that it’s not retaliating to violence with more violence. It may be human nature to do that, but that doesn’t make it right.


Will butt out now…

 

I think you both raise very good points. I’m just too busy at the moment to join in.

Now while this thread is supposed to be about ‘Coronavirus and NOTHING to do with football’ , but is now nothing to do with Coronavirus , there is a separate thread for the Ukraine invasion. It is clearly the #1 issue for the world at the moment, so it’s bound to show up elsewhere, but in the interest of board diversity, perhaps we can keep that conversation going there.

(And, FWIW, I hope you fellas find some common ground at some stage, as I’ve learned so much from both of you over the years. )

 

I get your point Andy - the thread was supposed to be about Corona but this theme is behind us (we hope) and it has turned into an unofficial politics thread. At least a private politics thread known only to us because no roving poster interested in politics is going to open it.

 

The theme may be behind us but my Best Man and his good lady are recovering from Covid having caught it on a Rhine river cruise a few weeks ago. And the Gov. have stopped the app.
There have been a thousand new cases per day, roughly, for the past month or so. The figures are available but it just takes longer to extrapolate. Par for the course for the shysters that need to bury bad news.

 

They don't need to bury bad news, when it comes to Covid, the media do that for them.

As far as I can tell, as well as those new cases stats, they also haven't reported on the 14K+ weekly excess deaths still occurring - nor the weekly average of around 500 of which are directly caused by Covid.

 

I always understood the title of this thread to indicate a dual meaning - both anything that had NOTHING to do with football, and Covid...

 

It is an unofficial political thread, and there is politics involved in the invasion of Ukraine, but there is a separate thread for that, was my point.

 

The Good Law Project on Sunak -

"Transparency may be inconvenient to the Prime Minister – he shies from it as a vampire from sunlight."

So true - he talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.


https://goodlawproject.org/rishi-sunak-transparency/?

 

his bluster about "professionalism" and "integrity" have proven to be the most hollow of words from any politician ever - including dePiffle.

 

It is hardly a surprise, except for Rees-Mogg actually admitting that the Tories were trying to influence the local election results.

"Parties that try and gerrymander end up finding that their clever scheme comes back to bite them, as dare I say we found by insisting on voter ID for elections.

"We found the people who didn't have ID were elderly and they by and large voted Conservative, so we made it hard for our own voters and we upset a system that worked perfectly well.

 

It makes a change to see the media equating donations to the Tory party to money laundering.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...-hindmarch-money-laundering-nca-b1081279.html

 

Nigal Farage on Newsnight.

"We haven't benefitted from Brexit economically ... we've mismanaged this totally.... we are driving business away.... Brexit has failed."

 

****er....... really shows you waht a self serving twat he is

 

She hits the nail on the head again. I don't know what BB thinks, but she could well be a future leader in Scotland.

 

She's fantastic. Don't agree with everything she says, she's in the SNP for starters, but she's that rare thing in Parliament: an honest politician. Love her!