Off Topic Coronavirus

Don’t know what it’s like in the big smoke, but if this rain doesn’t stop soon you could probably take a boat. Or swim.

It wouldn’t even cross my mind to take the M25 for that trip, but it’s not entirely daft I suppose.

 

Sounds like one of the regular bugs that do the rounds each winter, and hopefully will go without leaving unwanted remnants

 

Quite. Antibiotics might help, though.

 

Crap Stroller. You take care mate.

 

Thanks. I really don't think it's a big deal, I'm more curious to find out how the testing will go and whether I can actually get to see my GP.

 

Good luck stroller...let us know...please.


But me too with the symptoms. And I am wondering too about getting a test ( this brings out the hypochondriac in me)
My sense of taste went late December...( Which has always worried me).. so that is little help..

I have a persistent headache, fatigue and sore throat... definitely noncovid symptoms...but it is beginning to worry me.

 

Sounds like you've already had it, Beth. The worrying thing for me would be Long Covid. My current symptoms are more an annoyance than really debilitating, but Steelsy's wife seems to be going through a really hard time.

 

It's hard to get across to people how debilitating it's been unless you knew her before we caught Covid, then saw her now. She's totally traumatised by the whole ordeal, waking up each morning and petrified about every little thing in case it's a relapse. It seems to go in waves, a few weeks back she was well on the road to recovery and even talked about going back to work - next thing I've got her in A&E with a heart rate at 160 from just doing some basic housework and we're back to square one. Thankfully she seems to be on an upward slope at the moment, but still worried that there will be other downhills on the road to recovery. I really hope for you and Beths sake that you've got nothing more than a minor cold.

 

All the best Strolls.

 

It's a bit of a "kiwi" read, but this article from the Independant is quite informative when it comes to Long Covid. Some research from the Kings College app, which both Beth and Stan have said is good I believe...

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HOW LONG DOES COVID LAST? WHY ARE PEOPLE EXPERIENCING SYMPTOMS FOR MONTHS?
A study published in September found 60,000 people have been suffering from long-term symptoms

Sophie Gallagher@scfgallagher
4 days ago

At the start of 2020, Covid-19 was still an unknown illness to most of the world - now there have been 33m confirmed cases of coronavirus worldwide (439,000 in the UK alone) and a global death toll of 1,000,000.

Much is still not known about the long-term impacts of the virus - in February the government believed it was similar to known respiratory illnesses, like the flu, which is why they adopted a well-tested flu pandemic model. Now it is clear that coronavirus operates differently.

Another aspect of the virus which is becoming more well-documented as we approach our ninth month living with it, is its duration.

On 25 August, Downing Street was forced to deny claims that Boris Johnson could quit as prime minister within six months because of ongoing health problems due to coronavirus. The father-in-law of Dominic Cummings was reported to have told a holidaymaker that Mr Johnson was still struggling after he became ill in April.

Whether or not Mr Johnson is still struggling is unconfirmed but the long-term impacts of coronavirus are increasingly noted by experts and survivors. A study released on 20 August found nearly three quarters of coronavirus patients admitted to hospital suffer ongoing symptoms three months later - many were unable to carry out daily tasks such as washing, dressing or going back to work, the study found.

On 7 September, a study reported up to 60,000 people in the UK have been suffering from long-Covid for more than three months.

So what is long-Covid and why does it happen to some patients and not others?

What is long-Covid?
The term long-Covid (also known as long-haul or long-tail) is not an official medical term. It is used by people suffering symptoms of the virus for longer than the official WHO-endorsed two week period, which is meant to be long enough for the virus to come and go.

Sufferers report a huge spectrum of problems beyond the three NHS-approved symptoms (persistent cough, fever and loss of taste or smell). These include fatigue, breathlessness, muscle aches, joint pain, 'brain fog,' memory loss, lack of concentration, and depression. It is not thought that people are infectious for the long period, but just suffer long-term effects.

Jennifer Forbes 41, from Cornwall got ill with Covid-19 in mid-March. She told The Independent, despite having no underlying conditions, she did not expect to get back to her former fitness for six months. “There is some slight change over the last few weeks, but it feels very slow, and still backwards and forwards,” she says. “I kept saying I was better, only to slip back again”.

Although the term is still colloquial rather than universally medically-approved – several celebrities including actors Alyssa Milano and Emma Samms have shared experience of issues like hair loss – there is increasing scientific evidence to support the idea of a long illness.

On 20 August, a study published by Southmead hospital in Bristol found that a total of 81 patients out of 110 discharged from the hospital were still experiencing Covid-19 symptoms, including breathlessness, excessive fatigue and muscle aches, after 12 weeks.

Separate data from the Covid Symptom Study app, being run by Kings College, suggests a “significant number” of people report symptoms for a month. The app, which has been downloaded more than 3,000,000 times, found that one in every 20 people experience long-term symptoms.

Another study, developed by
health app ZOE and endorsed by NHS Wales and NHS Scotland, found one in 10 are ill for more than three weeks and some may suffer for months.

The same pattern has been seen elsewhere in the world. Writing in the Journal of the American Medical Association, a team of researchers from Italy reported that nearly nine in 10 patients (87 per cent) discharged from a hospital in Rome were still experiencing at least one symptom 60 days after onset.

They found that 13 per cent of the 143 people were completely free of any symptoms, while 32 per cent had one or two symptoms, and 55 per cent had three or more.

And it's not just sufferers reporting it; a third of doctors have treated patients with long term covid-19 symptoms, including chronic fatigue and anosmia, a survey conducted by the British Medical Association (BMA) found.

The emergence of these official figures has led to these long-term sufferers coming together and forming support networks, such as the Facebook group “1 in 20” (a name inspired by the findings of the King’s survey).

Why is Covid lasting longer for some people?

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Caring for someone with dementia during a pandemic
The Royal College of General Practitioners said it expects GPs to see an influx of patients with "lingering" illnesses but there is less certainty as to why some people suffer for longer.

A report from King’s suggested that those with longer-term symptoms could be related to the severity: “Evidence is mounting that some people who have had relatively mild symptoms at home may also have a prolonged illness.

“Although we know that lasting fatigue can sometimes follow other viral infections, detailed mechanistic insight is, for the most part, lacking. An ongoing viral infection in lung, brain, fat or other tissue may be one mechanism. A prolonged and inappropriate immune response after the infection has been cleared might be another."

And a previous study into post-illness chronic fatigue has shown that some patients may just be biologically predisposed to such a response. "When a chemical called interferon-alpha was given to people as a treatment for hepatitis C, it generated a flu-like illness in many patients and post-viral fatigue in a few.

"Researchers have studied this “artificial infection response” as a model of chronic fatigue. They found that baseline levels of two molecules in the body that promote inflammation – interleukin-6 and interleukin-10 – predicted people’s subsequent development of chronic fatigue," says the report.

What help is available for people with long Covid?
The NHS has launched a Covid-19 rehab service for people who have been suffering with the long-term effects of the virus.

Your Covid Recovery Service initially launched online but it will become a face-to-face portal at a later date when it is safe to do so. People without online access will be provided with printed materials, “depending on demand”.

The government has also provided £8.4m in funding for the Phosp-Covid study, a UK-wide consortium led by researchers at the University of Leicester, that will investigate the long-term health outcomes of the disease. Around 10,000 patients are expected to take part.

An all parliamentary group (APPG) of MPs has also been hearing from Covid survivors about long-term symptoms in a bid to better respond to the growing crisis. Labour MP Andrew Gwynne, a member of the APPG, revealed that he had been unable to shake his own coronavirus symptoms for 18 weeks.

Claire Hastie, the founder of the Long Covid Support Group, warned that GPs were regularly misdiagnosing ongoing problems as anxiety or ME, telling politicians: "The science needs to catch up with us.”

 

Thanks.

 

The app is quite good, though only as good as the input it gets and of course restricted by the number and type of respondents. Directional info rather than definitive science I think.

Lots of raw data, some of dubious accuracy, referred to here. In the same story there are 60,000 long COVID sufferers, or perhaps 75% of all those hospitalised, or 90% a little later in the piece, or 1 in 20 of all those infected. Unhelpful. The last paragraph really resonates with me. The government has taken some deserved stick but the science is lagging in many areas too, especially given the massive resource devoted to studying this virus for over six months now, with well over 30 million confirmed cases, many in rich countries. It definitely takes time to develop effective treatments, but I’m surprised we haven’t got a little more certainty around:
- whether having had the disease gives you any immunity and for how long. Come on, this really should be much clearer by now, there have been enough cases. Logic says it must do, but confirmation would be handy. It also makes a massive difference to how we manage the disease. At the moment if you’ve had it I assume you still have to self isolate if a family member tests positive.
- risk factors for long covid - can we predict chances of developing symptoms for particular segments of the population?
- whether masks make any difference. Again, plenty of opportunity to do some proper studies on this. I might have missed it, but I’ve seen no new actual evidence published.
- how many people are infected, roughly, by airborne virus breathed/coughed out by infected people versus touching surfaces where the virus has settled. I read something the other day saying virtually no one gets infected through surfaces, but there was no evidence behind the statement.
- how infectious are asymptomatic people? Especially kids? I would assume that they have low viral load if they don’t have symptoms.
Beth is a proper scientist and will tell me why some or all of these things are more complicated than I imagine. Some directional, if not definitive, guidance on some on them would be of real help though.

 

Strolls FFS contact your GP, failing that and if you don’t get any joy then pop yourself along to your local UCC, where you can see a Dr. If it is a chest infection then it can be easily sorted with antibiotics, and if it’s something more like cardiac then again, that needs to be looked at.
The longer you leave it the more chances it has of getting dangerous.
Please mate

 

Thanks mate. I'm sure it's just a regulation chest infection, but getting diagnosed is more difficult at the moment. I'll get the Covid test done as a formality, then phone the GP.

Complicated times.

 

Mate please don’t let the ‘COVID’ thing become a somewhat ‘red herring’. As you say it probably is just a chest infection, however other things would need to ruled out. You have Hillingdon UCC not that far from you where someone could have a listen to your chest and see what’s going on...ie if wheezy, crackles, bubbles etc. Then they could start the course of antibiotics sooner rather than later. If your chest is clear then you’ll need an ECG as a lot of the symptoms couldn’t be ruled out as cardiac.....it does need sorting and personally I don’t think you should leave it by waiting for the COVID test

As another thought Strolls, I’m about tomorrow you want me to give you a quick check over your 02 levels and have a listen to your chest. I haven’t anything planned Other than a run during the day and would be a pleasure.

 

I suppose I'm just assuming that the Covid thing will have to be ruled out before anything else will be considered. How do you get to see a GP at the moment?

I'll give it a day or two more, though - it's been three weeks after all - but will take your advice if I can't get to my GP.

Thanks Mum.

 

UCC mate. Hillingdon will be your nearest. Gotta look after the elders

 

Bit of a kiwi read

You mean informative
A must read
Well worth the time taken

 

World-beating...

 

I have both apps. I thought the NHS contact system only clicked in on extended (say 10 minutes) meetings..
Today I got an update of my contracts.

Now being an oap I have the luxury of trying to keep my self safe by avoiding people. I wear a mask and I keep my distance. And the only People I have had any ,serious contact with (I thought,) were my 2 daughters and their small families +2 and +1).None of my family have the NHS app ...so they are not included

Last Monday on a Tesco's shopping run I had 20 contacts. I did all the selfscanning stuff and thought I made no contact with anyone
On Thursday...on an admittedly more unnecessary trip to a local town to get a few things another 25 contacts..

Should point out all negative.
I am shocked that I have had 45 contacts....

Has anyone else got the NHS...and are you getting these numbers....or is it an "artifact' of scanning in to a shop ( you don't scan out) ...and these are just people who were in the shop approximately the same time I was... anyone know please?