Off Topic Coronavirus

So as I thought, you used the report on an endemic to repeat all of your past criticism of the Tories, some of which I agree with.
Now you say there was nothing we could do to prevent an endemic, completely contradicting yourself.
To see far worse handling of covid, see India!!

 

Got my second jab booked for next Thursday, ten weeks after the first. Well done NHS.

 

No, the EU's contribution was to allow Pfizer/Biontech to operate/manufacture in the EU so they can export to a market of 450m without tariffs/customs declarations. If Prizer arn't happy with that, they can always go manufacture in Peru or Vietnam or somewhere cheaper with less regulations. Will they, no chance. Why? Because they want direct access to the EU market of 450m people. The many Pharma companies in Ireland are there for two reasons, lower taxes and direct access to a market of 450m people.

Who mentioned anything being nasty? The US and UK have their own policy. The fact that neither country are exporting to countries like NZ, Oz, Canada etc means the only way those countries can get supply of quality vaccine is to buy from Pfizer/Biontech. The alternative is to go Chinese or Russian. I am saying the people from those countries that have been vaccinated with a product manufactured and exported from the EU should be happy that at least somebody is helping them.

The Pfizer plant in Belgium are subject to EU law's and controls on vaccines and the EU can at any stage halt exports to any country who has not reciprocated with their vaccine exports. That is the rule Von Der Leyen has brought in. You can disagree with it if you wish but as you know, rules are rules and that particular rule gives her the power to halt exports to any country at any stage.

The rest of your post Stan on tax laws and Biden belong in the Politics thread except to say that Ireland won the appeal on the Apple tax ruling. If the EU can't overturn Ireland's own tax laws, I doubt any President of the U.S. (Irish, French, Chinese, Japanese or Mongolian) can. He can try and good luck to him for trying. It is a noble cause to raise more taxes so a good socialist President can spend those tax Dollars as he sees fit. Time will tell if he succeeds and whether 40m Irish/American voters and huge chunks of American business interests who have their European base here will forgive him if he damages their business and the Irish economy.

 

I have actually heard tell that an American Doctor called Scandinavia blood clot central, pre-Covid. Maybe he had a point. if I remember right Germany also had quite a lot of serious CVST's cases including a number of deaths after taking the AZ vaccine. The EU were hardly slagging off AZ for safety, it took them many many weeks to recognise a connection between the CVST's and the AZ vaccine, same as the UK who also delayed admitting to most of their cases until right up to their presentation and cutting it for the under 30's.

Of course vaccination is beneficial where there are high numbers of Covid serious sickness and deaths like in the UK, US, India, much of Europe, and much of Latin America. US real life research has shown the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are showing not only very good efficiency in eliminating serious Covis sickness and death, but is also doing well in reducing Covid infections altogether. They look to be the vaccines of choice if you are so lucky to get them. I read too the EU is on the point of agreeing a huge supply of the Pfizer vaccine, enough for the whole EU population from 2021 to 2023.

 

I had my first jab a week ago and am scheduled for my second in early August. And although I have been a beneficiary of vaccines from EU with a possibility that by August Mr Biden may have vaccinated all those in his country that will take the vaccine so I could conceivably benefit from a US produced vaccine. But I do believe that the countries that have been less foolish than my own have a duty to attend to their own populations first and look after the rest of the world when they get around to it

It is not the fault of Mr Modi. Mr Johnson or Mr Biden that Canada had 20 years of successive governments that systematically removed any capability to produce
vaccines. We have not supported those industries with our tax dollars and our PM has dithered more that even I, not a supporter of his, thought he would/could. I am right chuffed to have the vaccine doing it's thing but I probably should have declined getting it for a while

 

Yes they have Oslo.

They have done an AZ type deal. 180 billion Pfizer vaccines exclusively and only for the EU. This contract is to begin delivery from next Autumn/Winter.

 

Why should you have declined your vaccine for a while, Maple?

I thought you were anxious to get it?

 

Does that include Norway?

 

It felt somewhat selfish. I was anxious to get it - and I am happy to have had it.

 

Didn't the UK supply 700000 doses to Australia
Apparently China has had less than 5000 deaths from their virus

 

Nothing we could to do prevent an endemic in the world....but like NZ or Australia we could have stood aside...and not have lost 130,000 lives


I have not contradicted myself at all Col, please just understand what I said.

It has become an endemic, if we had actually closed our borders and trace and tracked effectively we did not need to lose 130,000 lives.

 

And over a year later our borders are still shut
Only opened to Australia this week

 

You did. Read again what you said.

Making the mistakes you continuously point out wouldn't have made any difference to an endemic. You said the UK could have done more to prevent it.

Anyway, whatever.

 

If it helps, I think you’re the one that has misread it.

 

[QUOTE="qprbeth, post: 14833736, member: I am not sure we could ever have prevented this, but the UK have not really done much to try[/QUOTE]

When I asked what we could have done, you said it couldn't have been prevented.

This is a contradiction.
This is like pulling teeth.

 

Just googled it and you are right according to the Sydney Morning Herald.

Apparently it was kept hush hush in order not to upset UK public opinion.

 

The pedant in me wants to question the use of the word endemic as if it's a localised pandemic - ie epidemic.

Where's @Uber_Hoop?

 

When I asked what we could have done, you said it couldn't have been prevented.

This is a contradiction.
This is like pulling teeth.[/QUOTE]

Col you will never make a dentist!


What part of "I'm not sure we could have prevented this " and " we could not have prevented this"...is really actually contradictory?


You are finding deep subtlety of meanings in my words that I am really not capable of.

We the UK... could not prevent an endemic in the big wide world....we can only do our bit ...and stop people dying in our own country...

Obviously, we could start by sending our surplus vaccines to India and other countries, that might help, but my understanding is we don't currently have any surplus...but that is a completely different argument....which I am sure we will get onto.

 

So this is a good definition....

But what’s the difference between epidemic and endemic? An epidemic is actively spreading; new cases of the disease substantially exceed what is expected. More broadly, it’s used to describe any problem that’s out of control, such as “the opioid epidemic.” An epidemic is often localized to a region, but the number of those infected in that region is significantly higher than normal. For example, when COVID-19 was limited to Wuhan, China, it was an epidemic. The geographical spread turned it into a pandemic.

Endemics, on the other hand, are a constant presence in a specific location. Malaria is endemic to parts of Africa. Ice is endemic to Antarctica.



So what Dr Farrar was saying... in the future Covid 19 will be with us, every where, all the time, just as flu and the common cold are.

We will learn to live with it by general infection / immunity or vaccination or by a genetic selection whereby the very susceptible people die, leaving the less genetically susceptible people to thrive

 

Exactly. The disease has become endemic. It is not 'an' endemic.

Sorry.

Where's @Uber_Hoop?