Match Day Thread Dr Jones vs Woy

Wasn't his turn!

 

I mean, something worked against Everton but there was still enough in the likes of Shelvey and Hendrick to suggest we could still improve heavily there. Against Palace, I'd have thought another subtle shift this time to 4-2-3-1 would have been ideal, but Bruce does his Bruce thing and will repeatedly play the same way following one decent performance, often racking up a number of defeats before trying something else.

I didn't quite understand Fraser being part of a front two - his role is undefined, and as a result he finds himself in positions that don't play to his strengths. It's very Bruce, though, the man is incapable of playing one game with every player in their position. It's too frequent to be coincidence, I genuinely believe he puts Fraser up front and thinks to himself "that'll confuse them", when the reality is these positional decisions confuse our own players.

If we didn't hate the man so much, we'd lament the result. Schar/Fraser missed absolute sitters and then Bruce abandoned a decent shape, so desperate he is to be seen as the one who gets the subs right. As Chaos rightly says, he's so self-obsessed he would put himself ahead of the team and does it time and again - first with Jones, then with the weird subs. I wish someone would tell him that every time he's thrown strikers on in desperation, we've lost the game without then scoring. It's NEVER worked - when will he learn? I suspect never, or at least not 'til its too late.

We can take heart from the fact he's realised he must have more than just 2 players in the middle. It's just a shame he then also puts Almiron in the middle, so we've actually gone up to 4 - does he not like odd numbers? 4-2-3-1 against all but the big 6, then a 5-3-2 against bigger teams should suit this squad really well. But it's perhaps understandable why Bruce is very much Ashley's man; Bruce will never play 4-2-3-1, because everybody is crying out for it. He'd sooner stand his ground and be wrong than do what's right and eat a bit of humble pie. Just like his boss, who should've long put Bruce in the bin, but won't in part because everybody wants him to. Both are out to prove us all wrong. Sadly, they won't. More defeats and eventual relegation beckons.

 

This comment from Bruce is just absolute comedy gold !!



He couldn't even do that when he was playing up top throughout the whole of the game before hand, what the **** made him think he was gonna be able to do it being played out of position? Again it comes down to Bruce's bright ideas of chucking every ****ing striker we have on our books on to the pitch for 5 mins at the end of the game to try and "nick something". It really is comedy and you're bang on, we'd be jumping up and down if we didn't hate him so much....we've long since moved past the point of being depressed and pissed off and just tune in now for comic effect, and raise a wry smile if we by some miracle or divine intervention manage to sneak something from a game like we did on Sat against Everton.

Be interesting to see how he approaches the wounded animal that will be Southampton on Sat. He'll set us up all defensive again thinking they're gonna come and have a go as they have a horrific result last night to come back from....he's that ****ing stupid and inept !!

 

Yeah, I am a little numb to it. Few months ago and I'd be ranting and raving about that kind of garbage, now I'm expecting it so as you rightly say you've got to just look for the ongoing comedy. Ryan Fraser right back as a "threat" is 25 years out of date. We've got out of date footballers like Gayle, Hendrick, Shelvey and Carroll. The whole club is just so stale. Credit to Wilson, Almiron and Max for trying to change the game, but when Jones was heavily involved it seemed like there was a plan. When Bruce seemed to get more and more involved, it descended into a farce. The more "attackers" he threw on, the less we looked like scoring..

It's all so slapdash and slipshod. When you need a goal, bombing crosses in time and again never works. As was said so long ago, there's never a plan b and barely ever a plan a. But we're stuck with it - and him - until Ashley goes, which isn't going to happen for at least two years.

 

FWIW I watched your game last night and I thought you did little wrong tbh. You got caught from a set piece same as you did to us at the weekend and then after that Palace sat deep and frustrated you. You’re giving Bruce pelters for throwing the kitchen sink at it towards the end, but if he hadn’t and you didn’t score you’d have been saying why didn’t he go for it. It’s a game of fine margins chaps.

 

Is it true that Jones was banished to the stands just before it fell apart?

 

There are real problems, perhaps as bad as KK vs Wise, at the club. Ashley has - predictably - pressed the self destruct button and made a run for it.

In other news, Darlow has now conceded 36 goals from 33.23 xGA. Last year, Dubravka conceded only 58 goals from 67.03 xGA. Let's get him back in goal. It might only be a marginal gain, but we need every little improvement.

 

Can't really complain about the performance, its a game we should have won clearly. I don't know why the players switched off for 15mins the way they did, but it was very very costly. Weird game. First 30mins, bang on what you want. Getting after them, attacking, creating loads of chances, good intent. Didn't take our chances. Minute 30-45min players completely switched off, stopped tracking men and fatally began to fall deep again. The whole coaching staff were telling them too. 45-90mins, dominated but a combination of Palace defending better, and us lacking quality to deliver a crucial final ball. We really did look a bit lost in the end.

Couldn't blame Bruce for this (unless you're now just blaming him regardless), Good amount effort through 75min of the game, but at this level you can't afford switching off for 15mins. Tactics were right from the off, and the step further up the pitch and closing down is making the games more watchable. I've enjoyed the last 2.5 games more than 95% of the last 7 yrs.

Shelvey is a disgrace. I realise he scored, but I watched him on several occasions allow his man to run off him. He did that lazyitis thing where you don't even bother turning round and instead point your finger at the player running behind you. Like "pick him up I've got other things to attend to". Watching us over these last 2.5 games, I now think replacing him with a modern box to box ball playing midfielder could be transformational. Still more to do but he is everything you don't want in a modern player.

 

@captain wrong

Bang on the money again mate

 

Well done

 

So someone like Willock then?

 

Did you find it odd that Jones was banished and we almost immediately switched off? It seemed highly coincidental.

Mostly right, and if we persevere with 4-3-1-2, we need a different player than Fraser off Wilson (Max?) and cannot be playing all three of Shelvey, Hayden or Hendrick. Hendrick should be backup for Hayden, Shelvey should be keeping Ritchie company somewhere. The Sean of old, or a decent Matty, are both better and hopefully Willock solves a problem. Almiron transformed.

It's close - and we should survive still. But still weird mistakes from Bruce.

 

We will have to see what we have there. He's looked ok when I've seen him for Arsenal. Nothing flash. But he has come through a system and at a time when you'd like to think modern principals would be a given. If so he will be instantly more what we need.

I have nothing against Shelvey, but he can't play at this level anymore. The game has moved on. Managers whose entire tactical approach rests on sitting deep, in a stop the oppo counter attack style are few and far between. Basically he needs a manager who won't ask him to run. He can spray the ball about, there is no doubt about it. If you play defensive counter, that's a useful tool to have because he can release you quickly to counter from defence.

I'd much rather we just played modern football and tried to score personally.

 

Dubravka
Manquillo
Fernandez
Clark
Dummett
Schar
Hayden
Fraser/Willock
Almiron
ASM
Wilson

Schar and Hayden defensive midfielders.
That’s my team for the weekend.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with it in my eyes. Just as this change hasn't happened in a week. To be honest that's just silly in my opinion but this is what you get with football fans. Bruce has brought this scrutiny on himself unfortunately. This is what happens when you piss everyone off by taking ages to wake up and smell the coffee. Our fans are notoriously brutal with managers, he knew this so my sympathy with him is limited. If they like you on a personal level, they might cut you some slack (Rafa, Hughton). Otherwise though, its a pressure cooker up here because the team is so important to people. Bottom line is he may as well just accept that fans are going to ignore all that he has been doing to turn our approach around, and they are going to put the changes down to Jones, because it fits their narrative. I'll be honest, its tough tittie. He is well paid and if he hadn't been such an ostrich he could have got the fans to be a little more understanding. He'll never be popular regardless, like Pardew he's been behind the 8 ball from day 1. Again though, he knew that.

He seems to want sympathy and to be given some credit. I just see that as needy. Why not just be monosyllabic in the interviews, get a bit of siege mentality going. The biggest **** you to everyone cribbing him is to stick it to them in results. He doesn't because he's not a good manager. We appointed a ****heel and everybody said it at the time!

I honestly think we were bang on tactically. For the first 30mins we looked like we had 12 players. Completely overran their midfield. I think we've seen how Hendrick can be used. Individual errors cost us and a collective malaise. We don't have great players though, so it happens from time to time.

 

Let's not all become Bruce and start playing players out of position.

If we stick with 4-3-1-2: Dubs, Manq, Fede, Clark, Lewis; Hayden, Willock, Longstaff (either); Almiron; Max, Wilson
If we change to 4-2-3-1. Dubs; Manq, Fede, Clark, Lewis; Hayden, Willock; Max, Almiron, Fraser; Wilson.


Hayden to do dirty work, Wllock and/or Longstaff to move the ball. Schar is a lovely player, but we need to get out of the **** Bruce has thrown us in.

 

Has to get Wilson up top for me, can't stand watching him play out wide right, offers half of what he does when through the middle and is an effective out ball if we are forced deep through the middle but no way near as effective out wide. Miggy has to stay in that AM position - the work rate and energy he gets through is phenomenal! Get ASM outside of him and another winger either side of them (not convinced by Fraser but certainly the best crosser we have - not from RB though who the **** thought that was a good idea?) and let them sit high and wide - forces opposition fullbacks to think twice before bombing forwards - Hayden the only CM fit to wear the shirt out of the three from last night, Willock or a Longstaff alongside him in a 4-2-3-1 .

Jonjo Shelvey shouldn't be near the XI let alone the ****ing VC and wearing the arm band (give it to Hayden). Honestly can't see a reason for him to be in matchday squads anymore.

Honestly; in terms of CM it goes:
Hayden
Hendricks/Schlongstaff/Mongstaff/Willock in any order you like
Elliot Anderson
Steve Bruce
Jonjo Shelvey - he isn't a CM or a ball playing midfielder he's a glorified footballing equivalent of a QB who sits on top of the defence and pings the ball around particularly averagely.

 

Problem with Shelvey is he's a ****ing dinosaur player from the yesteryear era, unfortunately for us so is our ****ing manager so it's a match made in heaven as far as them two are concerned.

Bruce needs to get his head out of his arse, look at the modern game and then give his recently extracted head a massive ****ing wobble!

He's signed 20 odd players (some free and some loans) and spent £100m and we've got 2 good players out of it (Wilson and ASM). I literally would not give this bloke another penny to spend!

 

I always liked Pardews scrappy response to it all

like "ye i know its **** you wanna chat about something else or?"

and Hughton is so passive if you lost 20-0 he'd be like "well you know. happened"

 

I think we played well overall, but we have to stop dropping back into old defensive habits when it doesn't go our way, we are so weak mentally, especially the midfielders.

Bruce is still on my ****list though.