Ecclestone's eBar (Off-topic chat, £20m to get on the guestlist, no-one is safe)

Discussion in 'F1 Off Topic' started by TomTom94, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. TomTom94

    TomTom94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,110
    Likes Received:
    60
    Alternately, as suggested by genji, titled "Why the economy went to ****!" ;)

    A random thread for people to chat, and collate any non-major discussion. Probably best to keep this for off-topic discussion, socialising etc.

    The Newcastle fans on here (and elsewhere <whistle> ) will know what I'm on about, we call ours Shearer's eBar after the popular drinking establishment in the city. I came up with a similar pun for the title, but when someone thinks of a better one, feel free to edit it in <ok>

    Don't know how successful this will be but <diva>
     
    #1
  2. genjigonzales

    genjigonzales Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    8
    This was the original discussion, which can probably be deleted from that other thread now... + this to be stickied?


     
    #2
  3. Paco Montoya

    Paco Montoya Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,672
    Likes Received:
    26
    tomtom <roll>

    eBar <diva>
     
    #3
  4. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    15,002
    Likes Received:
    136
    If this thread is for venting random off-topic stuff, can i say, i never want to see Martin Atkinson referee an Arsenal game again.
     
    #4
  5. The Iceman

    The Iceman Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    999
    Likes Received:
    16
    Co-signed.
     
    #5
  6. El_Bando

    El_Bando Found
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    13,657
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    As a spurs fan I disagree

    Anyway back to my arguement with Genji. Will the Internet kill the economy, culture and the human race? I think so.

    My biggest bug bear is iTunes (and the like) It has destroyed the music industry. music used to be something to treasure, now its a cheap one listen and throw away. Kindle will do the same to books. Are we too spoilt for choice and not working hard to gain things that entertain us?

    Pick and choose an arguement here ^
     
    #6
  7. genjigonzales

    genjigonzales Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    8
    Are you going to delete the off-topic stuff from the original thread, lest it be answered?

    Music used to be good, which is why it was treasured. 90% of artists were serious about what they were doing and tried to be original. Now 90% are clones and their output is silly. It's not the Internet that killed music, it's the music industry for finally getting on top of which consumers to sell what genre to and investing only in what will predictably make a profit.

    The Internet is the one thing that keeps the 10% alive by making it freely available through Bandcamp and file sharing and the like to give decent, original artists exposure. In the world of pop music, if the model is to share your recordings for free in order to generate buzz around gigs then that's way better than selling people crap based on promo videos of one track full of scantily clad pubescent sex objects.

    If music has value then it doesn't matter how you got hold of it - you'll listen to it over and over again.

    Kindle is just a tool. It can't kill books, it just kills paper copies. That's insanely beneficial for the consumer (you have no idea how much space in my house is given over to books). It's really good for the writer (whose audience can access their books more easily and therefore buy and read them quickly and, I might suggest, on a whim). The publishers seem to be managing okay with it. What's the problem?

    Entertainment is stupidly overpriced anyway. It should all be available on a shareware basis. Try it for free, make a contribution if you like it and would like the creators to make more. Kill the middleman, too.
     
    #7
  8. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,494
    Likes Received:
    6,991
    It was obvious to me the economy was going to take a tumble a few years before it did for this very reason, machines took over the work of normal factory workers and now ecommerce is doing the same to high street shops, why should people go out shopping in the high street when they can buy off the internet easier, cheaper, and with more choice? Personally I don't think the economy will ever recover.


    P.S. Genji, did you ever work for Age Concern or Bain Clarkson? As I've often wondered how the **** you got a copy of my signature
     
    #8
  9. genjigonzales

    genjigonzales Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    8
    Not sure what you mean there, Miggins. No I haven't worked for those organisations but what signature?
     
    #9
  10. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,494
    Likes Received:
    6,991
    you used to have a copy of the first half of my signature in your sig, and it's always puzzled me how you got it.
     
    #10

  11. TomTom94

    TomTom94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,110
    Likes Received:
    60
    The internet is changing the way consumers think about consumables, people who like high profit margins don't like this and are trying to string out the old methods as long as they can.
     
    #11
  12. El_Bando

    El_Bando Found
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    13,657
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    This is exactly what I mean. The internet makes it too easy for people. You can just sit on your bum and not do anything. No need to go to town because all you need is on the internet. No need to do grocery shopping. Dont need to get up and post bills. no need to go out and experiance live music because its on youtube. dont need to see friends and family because they are on facebook.

    But then you dont have a job anymore because your empoyers have found an easier cost effective way without the need for you.


    Also Genji. as a guy with many books. what do you prefer. Something physical and says alot about you when stored on a shelf in your house or something digital with no other meaning other than to read? I know they say dont judge a book by its cover but covers are a piece of art in them selves.
     
    #12
  13. genjigonzales

    genjigonzales Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    8
    Oh I know what you mean. That was just some random google image from a search for "signature".

    I've just looked again and it's from this:


    please log in to view this image
     
    #13
  14. genjigonzales

    genjigonzales Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    8
    I don't actually have a Kindle (yet) but I do use my phone and laptop to read books and I honestly don't care either way. I like reading books but electronic devices are fine too. I don't care for storing them and I'd be happy to have all my books, music, films and TV stored on network drives. The downside of that is being organised enough to catalogue everything sufficiently. With a room full of bookshelves everything's right there in front of you.

    I think books are there to be read, nothing more, so I don't care whether I have the covers or the artwork (unless it's a book of art, which can obviously be rendered at massively higher resolution on my laptop than any book could manage).

    Progress is not without pain and luddite's have always sought to disrupt and delay it for precisely the reasons you describe. Change is hard and retraining, re-evaluating and (in some cases) simply retiring is a big challenge for the workforce but that's no reason to replay the 20th century over and over.

    That said, I think the greatest blight on world economies is 'business' and 'businessmen' - not the people who make things or provide services but the people who buy and sell the companies that provide goods and services, people who make money by taking a cut of someone else's labour only because their company owns the company delivering the goods and services. But then, I also think national boundaries and owning land are nonsensical, and I believe democracy is a sham and that we live as much in a feudal society now as we did a thousand years ago. We're just beholden to banks instead of landowners.

    etc.
     
    #14
  15. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,989
    Likes Received:
    306
    Completely agree with this. <applause>
     
    #15
  16. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    15,002
    Likes Received:
    136
    Sorry, but as a supporter of capitalism i disagree. The world is based upon supply and demand, and those who supply deserve to make a profit. It's the beauty of capitalism, as long as you have the nous, you can be something in this world.
     
    #16
  17. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,989
    Likes Received:
    306
    But it's not those who supply who make the profit, it's those who design and innovate who supply, and those who employ them who profit. Businessmen just manoeuvre other people's money into their own accounts and leach off the intelligence and creativity of others. There's an art to it but it's not a particularly complex one and it gives nothing back to society. Aggressive capitalism just results in 99% of people working harder for less money, while the remaining 1% crack the whip and watch as their money accumulates faster than they could ever spend it. Even then many of them don't attempt to spend it as they seek to accumulate as greater wealth as possible on some kind of power trip.
     
    #17
  18. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    15,002
    Likes Received:
    136
    That may be true, but they're still doing a job, and deserve to be paid accordingly.
     
    #18
  19. genjigonzales

    genjigonzales Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    8
    I would say there's no such thing as capitalism, Kyle. The very epitome of the concept failed abjectly when the banks burned in 2008 and socialism (in the form of state ownership and redistribution of wealth) had to step in to rescue its proponents and protect their colleagues/'competitors' from being engulfed in the flames. Capitalism never truly existed, it was just a lie. Your American dream is part of the same lie. The plutocrats who have been there for centuries still sit at the same table and, though the little people might get invited over for dinner once in a while, they don't get to join in when the trough comes out. Capitalism allowed the middle classes to believe they were involved in running things just as socialism allowed the working classes to believe and democracy allows us all to believe but ultimately they're all theoretical and it remains a feudal plutocracy that none of us are involved in running.

    I agree that those who supply deserve to make a profit - all the profit. Those who provide startup capital should receive a return commensurate with their investment, too (and interest should be the same both ways, e.g. savings should get the same rate of interest as loans). Those who are in business to desiccate the suppliers and sell them on like chattel are what I object to.
     
    #19
  20. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    15,002
    Likes Received:
    136
    I'm not so keen on socialism. it's been misused too many times. I hear socialism, i think National Socialism.
     
    #20

Share This Page