Ecclestone's eBar (Off-topic chat, £20m to get on the guestlist, no-one is safe)

Well, it was certainly used to great effect in 2008.

Different thing.

 

Really? Different thing altogether.

 

I know, but it's the word "socialism" Funny how adding 1 word in front of it can make such a vast difference. One minute it's freedom of choice for all, the next minute you're invading Poland.

 

A little detail (yay for AS History!): Nazism was greatly influenced (read: Hitler was Mussolini's biggest fan) by Fascism, a doctrine created by Mussolini to gain votes from the middle classes afraid of the rise of socialism across Europe, focusing on patriotism, authoritarianism, and corporatism.

It's the direct opposite of socialism.

 

Yes, but the party was referred to as "the National Socialist party", or Nat-So for short (yay for GCSE History)

 

Yes, that's correct. Etymologically speaking the party contained the word "socialism", because Hitler claimed to take inspiration from Marx's classless system. Ideologically speaking the Nazis share very little.

Think the main reason any sort of socialism won't see mass uptake in the next decade (barring an invasion from China or a more successful Occupy Wall Street protest) is a combination perhaps of this and the level of paranoia that sprung up in America during the Cold War.

 

It's because of the link between socialism and communism. People like having a free choice, they don't like being locked in a class system, which is basically what communism is. In Britain, you can be born on a council estate and still become successful. In communism, if you're born a member of the proletariat, you typically stay a prole.

 

No political system works because the people who end up in power are the people who seek it, and they are the people to whom power should never be given. Capitalism and the free market is an illusion, it invariably comes down to who has the biggest guns. Personally I'm a communist, but I know it will never work due to the nature of man as we havn't really evolved mentally as a species since we gained opposable thumbs.

? in a true communist system there is no class divide, all people are members of the proletariat regardless of lineage. You seem to mistake Russian Marxism for communism. for me communism is the only way we'll progress, all working for the collective good. Capitalism is quite possibly the worst system there is.

 

Yeah, as tomtom and Miggins said, the point of communism is that it's a classless system. There's no concept of social mobility because everyone is equal. However, the concept of social mobility in in capitalism is a falsehood. It's the same sector of society that owns the means of production now as owned the land and had "the biggest guns" in the 14th century. My problem with capitalism is that it depends on consumerism, or specifically consumption for consumption's sake. Remember when knockout qualifying was first introduced and in Q3 the cars would drive round burning fuel for the sole reason of burning fuel? That's symbolic of our society. The more we consume and the more the economy grows, the more 'successful' we think we are.

It's not just consumer-led growth that is the problem. It's its fundamental tenet that the sole purpose of existence is to amass as much individual wealth as possible. I know that our lives have no meaning and every human achievement will be extinguished from existence soon enough, and therefore the pursuit of wealth is as engaging a way of spending the short and insignificant time you have on the planet as any other, but if you exploit your neighbour for profit then you're not contributing anything to the short time that mankind has on the planet. I wouldn't argue that that's morally wrong because it's simply a fact of life that some people are so inclined but, for me, that's the difference between capitalism and more socially responsible -isms.

The only reason someone from a council estate can be "successful" in Britain is because (up until this point in time) they don't have to find the money to pay for healthcare, education, the safety net of welfare protection, disability support should they need it, a basic pension and many other support mechanisms like tax credits, child support, winter fuel allowance, etc. These are not capitalist innovations. Capitalism does not protect against poverty. More importantly, such progressive moves are (by intention, and should be) universal and thus promote social cohesiveness. A mum going to the post office to collect her child allowance shouldn't be sneered at by those who aren't entitled to it.

I just think it's better (for me personally and for society generally) if we all have a good standard of living than that the very few have a great standard of living at everyone else's expense.

I'm sure you're right but I'm hopeful that France's new tax laws will shine a light that will lead the way out of the double whammy that we (the taxpayers) have been hit by: the swingeing cuts falsely deemed necessary to recover from the economic crisis, and pips-squeaking tax rises on the poor and middle income workers.

 

I imagine that the whole of Europe is watching France at the minute. I desperately hope that their taxation policy is successful, for two reasons: one, it seems to me to work exactly how it should, and is exactly what I'd do in the situation for the reasons you describe; and two, if the socialists fail then it is increasingly likely that Marie Le Pen and her followers will gain power, which is a horrifying prospect.

It probably says something about the sort of person on this forum that our first off-topic discussion revolves around socio-capitalist ideologies.

 

Forced to be a hypocrit....

Went shopping in Norwich on sunday looking for a new pair of trainers. I went into several shops but was very diapointed. Every shop sold the same old bullshit style.


Heres a stereotype example:

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The missus calls them pumps. I call them ****. sure I have a pair on converses at home. but do I really need another pair of something similar? every other trainer style I found were branded by addidas or Nike etc which is not what I was looking for.

Having to look on the internet now and feel very guilty about it and out of fasion ;(

 

**** the highstreet! The internet is the future.

Doesn't Norwich have a Stratford Westfield- or Trafford Centre-type out-of-town highstreet killer? Those kinds of places sell all manner of things you don't need at prices that can't be justified.

 

yes it has 2 shopping centers I think but a lot lot smaller. Had a look in them and also tried to find the little shops on the outside but alot of them had closed =/

 

That's a shame but, if they're not going to carry the kind of items your average not606 moderator wants to buy, what do they expect? Anyway, it'll be Xmas soon and those closed shops will be full of flash-in-the-pan decoration and 2013 calendar vendors, so it's not all bad.

 

Its funny how generic having the calandar and decoration shops are. What do they do with thier time for the rest of the year? They must also get some real knockdown overheads from the leasers. as surely it is cheaper and more business sense to open a market stall?

 

Norwich city centre is dying. They built a new shopping centre in town when the old one wasn't even full, and now the old one is half empty and the new one is filled with generic rubbish. No major out-of-town shopping centre I can think of. I agree the internet is the future.

 

Why not try a specialist shop or something? iIf you want skate-ish shoes that aren't another pair of Converse chuck taylors, try somewhere like Schuh (sp). They're normally pretty good.

 

I went into schuh(sp) and they were the worst for it. Funny enough I went on their website and found loads I liked. They were just holding out on me obviously

 

Most shops do that now. You basically have to order in the stock yourself. That's probably one reason why the high street is dying. I'm an impulse buyer, i'll just buy the 1st thing i see.

 

This.