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Fans who criticise club employees/owners directly.

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Flash Gordon, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. Flash Gordon

    Flash Gordon Well-Known Member

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    Why do they do it?

    Do they think it helps?

    Do they consider how it affects the person or their family?

    Do they get anything out of them?

    During Sunderland til I die, there were 2 variations of this which I heard.

    Donald's girlfriend didn't like him owning the club because of the abuse he receives on twitter. I know he chooses to be on there, but it's not great when it affects his whole family and personal life, so I can understanding him stepping away.

    Flanagan mentioned that he was out with his wife shopping when a fan approached him and had a go at him. It obviously was uncomfortable for him and his partner and put more pressure on him. A person who does this is a Grade A ****er in my view.
     
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  2. Nads

    Nads Well-Known Member

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    Same mentality as folk who shout at staff in shops or on the phone mate.

    Pond life, and thick as pigs ****.
     
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  3. Flash Gordon

    Flash Gordon Well-Known Member

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    It's slightly different though. Neither is acceptable but shouting at staff in a shop has no come back. If these fans knew that by confronting a player and his wife, they could unsettle the player and potentially lead to worse performances, would they still do it? I suspect they would, I just find the psychology behind it interesting.
     
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  4. Nads

    Nads Well-Known Member

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    It does have a comeback though mate, depression, self loathing and anguish.

    Just cos folk ain’t in the public eye, the troubles are still the same. In the same way to some players they thrive off it, or it bounces off them.

    I agree, I’ll have my say on here but I’ve never understood how folk think dragging someone down will build them up. I just don’t get it.
     
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  5. Flash Gordon

    Flash Gordon Well-Known Member

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    I didn't mean that it doesn't affect the person on the receiving end, I just meant that the person delivering the tirade will never see the fallout.

    I agree with you, having a discussion on a forum is different to directing abuse at a person.

    To be fair, it says more about the person giving out the abuse in my view.
     
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  6. Nads

    Nads Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely mate.

    I’ve always been a firm believer in a ‘quiet word’ rather than a public lambasting in my work. Then it’s a 2 way chat and there’s answers, kind of the opposite to Methven in the documentary.

    I know you can’t just have a bit craic with a player, but that doesn’t mean the only option is the flawed solution, that’s why clubs have managers and staff.

    People will always say ‘I pay my money so I am entitled’, so, is your gaffer allowed to call you a useless **** and scream at you in front of your workmates, or would you be straight to HR?

    It’s the same thing in essence, the same folk who dish it wouldn’t stand for it.
     
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  7. Flash Gordon

    Flash Gordon Well-Known Member

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    It's mad how many people over the road seem to think Methven was right. In my opinion it's very easy and a bit cowardly to call someone out. It's much more difficult and nuanced to show them how to improve their approach.
     
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  8. Nads

    Nads Well-Known Member

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    Exactly mate.

    As I said on the thread, he knew where we needed to get, but your job as a leader isn’t to tell someone where we need to be, it’s to guide them on how to get there.

    Rule by fear is never going to work, that’s how rebellion starts. Some folk might not like being taught initially but you watch them grow when the results start.

    Nobody ever grew from being lectured, barked at, and belittled.

    Positivity can change the entire psyche of a person, negativity only breeds more of the same.
     
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  9. Ozzymac

    Ozzymac Well-Known Member

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    I guess it comes down at times as to whether the person had been shown and still didn't give a toss. You can only try and teach them so many times.
     
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  10. Blond Bombshell

    Blond Bombshell Well-Known Member

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    So Charlie wasn't a good manager and liked to shout at staff but when the fan forums pressed him he didn't like it and ran away?
     
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  11. Nads

    Nads Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I mean that’s about right ain’t it?

    Belittled folk but had no plan to improve. Saying ‘we need more sales’ isn’t sales coaching.
     
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  12. Blond Bombshell

    Blond Bombshell Well-Known Member

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    Agree, but some of my mates say he comes across well...
     
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  13. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    I think Methven comes across well in as much as he clearly knows what needs to be done and is determined to get it done.

    The way he delivers the message to his staff isn't clear though and his people skills are terrible. The way he speaks to that Irish girl at the Bradford City game is completely unacceptable. In this respect he comes across as an arrogant tit.
     
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  14. Nads

    Nads Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    He knew where we needed to be, had no idea how to get us there.
     
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  15. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    My mrs was shocked by the Flanagan stuff when we were watching last night.

    If you read rtg or here after a matchday you can see how some fans come to the conclusion that the players are fair game to be abused or confronted in the street for days afterwards. There are countless threads on the forums calling players all sorts, I mean it's the same at the match but the frustration is more understandable at times. After a few hours cooling off, anyone that angry has a screw loose.

    I think most of us would lay any ****er out if they did that to us in Tesco, but if Flanagan did, the only person that loses is him. The fan will get off scot free.
     
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  16. Nads

    Nads Well-Known Member

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    Bang on.

    Footballers are still human beings. They might have a few extra quid but they still have a soul and feelings.
     
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  17. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    Must be extremely frustrating. I bet a few of them read the rtg threads post match and must be all over the place mentally.

    People talk about needing mental strength and all that - we're in League One, people make mistakes, they're not at the top level for a reason. The O'Nien and Baldwin interviews early on were perfect examples of players who beat themselves up so much that they can't progress. People shouting at them in the street just compounds a weakness that they're aware of.

    At some point in the last few years, maybe 2015, some of our fans - quite a large number really - began to actively go after our players, and they haven't adjusted to the limitations of the new lads yet.
     
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  18. Nads

    Nads Well-Known Member

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    Not an easy life being a footballer I shouldn’t think.

    Don’t get me wrong the rewards, I can’t even imagine, I’m very comfortable and I likely earn a year what one of our players gets in a month, but ****ing hell mate, the pressure.

    9-10 months a year you are told what you can eat, you can’t have a bender with your pals when you need a blow out, there’s no escape.

    You’re pretty much constantly fighting to keep your job, you try and keep focused and confident then thousands are booing you and telling you you’re ****.

    It’s a tough gig and no mistake. We are born with our mindset, absolutely you Can change yourself to a degree, but essentially, mentally, you’ll always be you.

    Some of these lads will have self conscious issues etc and pummelling them on top of that isn’t gonna see them reach their peak.

    I’m not playing the violins for them, but I certainly understand how human beings are made up and work. Nobody thrives on being ripped apart.

    Apart from Beckham like. Beckham did.

    Somedays you just wake up and you’re not yourself. That might be a matchday.
     
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  19. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    Spot on aye. I think the mindset that people have is that money solves everything, but if you're earning say, £3k a week, then that's £150k a year and you'll likely take home about £9k a month. I'm sure some people think that's enough to justify all kinds of stuff being thrown at players, but I don't know how much it would take for me to put myself through that. More than £9k a month.

    Thinking about it, I can definitely see why top players now seem so detached from fans. They must know that if they put any stall by the opinions of fans they'll end up taking it much harder when (not even 'if' in most cases) the fans inevitably turn on them. I think as horrible as it sounds, I'd be inclined to do exactly the same. Look at Honeyman for us, the one lad who throughout the two seasons of STID was proudest to play for us, was constantly happy and could never be accused of giving less than 100%.

    Bet he was chuffed on a Saturday when he logged on to be called worse than ****e and told how bad he was as a captain every week. I bet there was part of him that was happy to move up a division and play 33 games for Hull this season rather than the pain of his own turning on him for no reason except their own frustration. I'll never understand that because we should KNOW that Honeyman would never give less than 100000%, so why even give him ****?

    I don't know, the Flanagan stuff last night did make me think there's a degree of weirdness not just in us, but all football fans.
     
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  20. Nads

    Nads Well-Known Member

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    Aye, you wouldn’t think it was ok in general society, you wouldn’t accept it in you, like you say you’d swing for folk.

    Bit it’s ok to savage a young fella with a family cos he’s got a few quid and plays football? Naaa. It’s not.

    Forums like this, it’s ok, it’s less human. In the flesh there’s no reason.
     
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