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Gay Footballers

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by velachiperoo, Jan 9, 2014.

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  1. velachiperoo

    velachiperoo Well-Known Member

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    As I am currently living in India and we are going through the midst of our 'Ban' on Gays ruling from the supreme court on top of this article. I figured this would be an interesting space to have a debate on whether football is ready for openly gay players.

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25661228

    Thomas isn't sure while most reckon the reaction would be negative. Will it? England recently legalised gay marriage, is the football community mature enough to accept gay players? Will it be embraced? Who will react more fans or players???? Will fans see it as another stick to abuse opposition players or leave it alone? The most interesting aspect will be how people react to their own players seeing as we are more inclined to protect our own. How will players cope with gay team mates?? Its fascinating. Is it worth it for individuals to come out???? The stats back that we will definitively have gay players but will/should they come out.??

    What do you reckon?
     
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  2. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    Do people really care about whether someone is gay or not nowadays? Most people are focussed on the sport and care little about someone "coming out". I really don't care what a person gets up to on his personal time, that is HIS PERSONAL TIME. I just want to see what they get up to on the football pitch. Everything else is irrelevant.
     
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  3. velachiperoo

    velachiperoo Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely and thats the problem. Uganda made it punishable by life, India made the act illegal, Russia refuse to acknowledge it, in many Islamic countries it is punishable and in many states in the USA gay marriage is illegal. Thats just a few examples. In sport it is still a huge issue and many who have come out (while they get messages of support from many) are derided by many and ostracised. Someone once told me something which i think is very true "Homophobia is the last of the accepted hates" It is not okay to be racist but it is still 'okay' to be homophobic.
     
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  4. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    Say for example an Arsenal player was gay, would he really have a hard time in the dressing room? Times have changed since Fashanu first came out. As for the crowds, you will always get abuse, that's the way things are unfortunately. Personally I would stop all forms of abuse. Some normal banter is fine, but some people get really personal and openly spray vile abuse, regardless of who is in the stands next to them.
     
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  5. velachiperoo

    velachiperoo Well-Known Member

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    With you on the fans bit. But it is interesting - will players react differently who knows??? Just its an interesting topic to discuss. I am not sure i have seen many educated, reasonable people get a completely different mindset when the gay debate starts. I honestly believe many are not ready for gay footballers (not necessarily vilify them) but to definitely treat them different. Seen it happen many times in different walks of life.
     
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  6. The Magic Man

    The Magic Man Well-Known Member

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    It is still a hate crime to be homophobic and is not OK.

    "would he really have a hard time in the dressing room?" Hopefully not, that could distract the other players.

    It shouldn't be an issue, but some ignorant fans / players would use it to abuse the player.
     
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  7. velachiperoo

    velachiperoo Well-Known Member

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    Sorry should have been more specific but that is what the ' ' over okay was for. Obviously hate crimes and violence as a result of homophobia is a crime. But I meant in the more general sense of not being comfortable or not liking gays is still relatively okay in society. The level of judgement by society on someone who is racist and who is homophobic is different. If it leads to a crime thats another issue. For example relgious texts such as the bible and Quran actively condem it and exclude people on that basis they cant with race. Also generally when you see debates the world over on sexuality the condemnation recieved to homophobia is not the same as racism. I meant more in that sense rather than the more specific hate crime sense.
     
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  8. smhbcfc

    smhbcfc Well-Known Member

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    Why do footballers have to be any different - I work/have worked with gay people and it makes absolutely no difference - I would not dream of "bantering" on that subject - although to be fair most of them have joked about it anyway (obviously at home with their sexuality)
     
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  9. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    To be more precise, the three Abrahamic religions are against the actual sexual act (buggery), rather than being homosexual per se.
     
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  10. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    That is one interpretation, but I can't say I have ever heard it.

    There is little doubt that mainstream variety of those religions persecute gay people regardless of the act. Straight couples don't seem to get much stick for anal sex and lesbian couples don't get a free pass either.

    This sounds like an American, I'm going to interpret the Bible any way I see fit, and pretend it justifies my point of view. Sorry, but it ain't like that, it is very likely that the love everybody historical Jesus, (if he existed as described in the Bible) would have stoned a gay person with the rest of the angry mob, whether he knew if they were buggering each other or not.

    Not one jot of the law, has been changed...
     
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  11. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately that's the way of the world. Any ideology or religion is open to abuse. You cannot put religion and people into the same context. There will be good people who follow religion properly and things will be fine. Same with good people who do not follow or believe in religion will make things fine too. It's the same the other way too.

    You are welcome to your opinion, even though it is very generalised and ill informed.
     
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  12. goonercymraeg

    goonercymraeg Amnesia
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    The only problem with a player "coming out" is the tribalism of the game.It would be OK for one of our players to be gay but not an opposing player.Some on here may remember rumours about certain West Ham players in the early 90's and the abusive songs about those players.We all know of the film stars,TV stars,music stars,MP's who are gay and it doesn't bother us so why should a gay footballer.
     
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  13. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem, abuse of opposing players has been a big problem. Opposing fans will take it to the absolute extreme by labelling someone something that is completely baseless. Perfect example was calling Wenger a pedo, I mean seriously, how this was ever able to drag on for just shows you the level of depravity in people.
     
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  14. velachiperoo

    velachiperoo Well-Known Member

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    Actually I agree with your general point. There are many good people who follow religion and good people who don't. The same as there are bad in both. The issue arises at this "who follow religion properly" if you follow religion properly there are many homophobic, sexist and racist themes and laws to follow. The fact that there are good people who are religious and don't follow the more archaic practices has happened in spite of religion not because of it. Education and empowerment are huge factors in this movement. Which is why in the more developed world the minorities (women most of all) have established themselves and society (in relation to the importance of religion) has moved on from the more archaic practices of the past (most inspired by religion as it has been the greatest ruling power of the past) as opposed to the more uneducated and poorer parts of the world where usually the influence of religion is far more prevalent.


    I would like to add that i have no issue in faith (in a higher power etc) in fact i am probably envious. It is organised religion that i have issues and mistrust in.
     
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  15. PeterRICK

    PeterRICK Well-Known Member

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    I can see why players are still worried to come out. You play nowadays in such a diverse, multi-cultural world. For an English player to come out we might not think it's a massive deal but he may well work daily with people to who homosexuality is a massive issue, be it for religious, national reasons etc. It's incredibly sad that people feel they have to hide who they are but I can understand some of their concerns.
     
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  16. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    No - I think it is just that (maybe?) I am a bit older than you and remember how the Bible used to be interpreted in Christianity. It wasn't that long ago that the Mormons were preaching that Black people were going to go to heaven and be slaves for white people in heaven.

    There is no doubt that a lot of the newer Christian/Jewish and to a lesser extent Islamic sects now seek to soften the teachings to fit with our superior modern morals.

    But the Old Testament evocation to "Go forth and multiply" WAS the driving factor here. All these religions were trying to get their people to out-breed the others. Gay people were considered subversive and counter-productive.

    I'm not ill-informed, the reverse actually. I genuinely am happy for the churches that have had the strength and the morality to adapt their teachings, but sadly that is not the way those teachings were intended originally. These were bronze age cultures with bronze age teachings for a brutal and barbaric way of life, and any attempt to pretend otherwise is a deception.
     
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  17. Not PC enough

    Not PC enough New Member

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    :emoticon-0136-giggl

    stop it .
     
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  18. I am Gooner

    I am Gooner Member

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    Jesus would not have been there stoning a gay, just goes to show you don't really understand the bible. He described sin as sin and didn't distinguish between different types. He would have treated a gay the same way as Mary Magdeline when he said let anyone who is without sin cast the first stone. The bible also says no one is righteous (except Jesus) and all fall short. So yes, Jesus would have said that it was sin but spent his time forgiving sinners.
     
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  19. Not PC enough

    Not PC enough New Member

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    you forget about the "repenting" of sins and "sin no more ".


    It wasnt carte blanche to carry on .
    the view of the church is that homosexuality itself is NOT a sin ...they accept that you can be born that way and its not your fault .

    But that the practising of homosexual acts IS a sin ...that is a matter of choice .
     
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  20. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I personally couldn't give a **** about a footballers sex life, be it gay straight, bi, swinger, abstinent or whatever. It has no bearing on his ability to play football and it's a private affair. I don't see why he would have to 'come out' to be honest even if he were gay.

    The problem would arise however as Cym has pointed out, through the tribalism in football. Fans look for any reason to mock opposition players, most of it is banter, but when it comes to sexuality, race and religion it's actually a hate crime and I think it would be a problem.
     
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