General Erection 2019

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by luvgonzo, Nov 18, 2019.

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Who will you vote for?

  1. Tory

    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  2. Labour

    11 vote(s)
    44.0%
  3. Lib Dem

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%
  4. Farage

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%
  5. Green Party

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  6. Plaid Cymru

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  7. Other

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  8. Abstain

    3 vote(s)
    12.0%
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  1. SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING

    SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING Well-Known Member

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    Not because of capitalism. Because of greed.

    Reality is we need a system that takes the good things from both left and right and gets buy in from all to deliver it over a long period of time, we’ll always have this issue. <ok>
     
    #221
  2. organic red

    organic red Well-Known Member

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    Greed and capitalism go hand in hand.........dog eat dog, boom and bust and profit over people every time
     
    #222
  3. jaffaklopp

    jaffaklopp Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism has an end point though, which is why things go bust. It is impossible to have increasing profits indefinitely. Then you have companies like Nestle, Mondelez, Unilever, CocaCola, Pepsi and so on, they own near enough everything that you buy and hoover up any smaller competition. They will get to a point where there is no more room to grow.

    Problem is the [email protected] at the top will still walk away with their bonuses, but stock markets will crash and its those at the bottom who will suffer
     
    #223
  4. SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING

    SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING Well-Known Member

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    Greed and MANKIND you mean? You never read animal farm then? <whistle>

    Just to be clear so this doesn’t turn into anything it shouldn’t, I’m saying that we need the best of both systems. Not one, or the other. We’ll never get there though because people just don’t like the idea of the rich getting richer....even when their investments mean that all get wealthier.
     
    #224
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  5. terrifictraore

    terrifictraore Well-Known Member

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    exactly this, human nature will always tend towards greed and efficiency( laziness). No system will ever work perfectly whilst mankind is flawed.

    not happy with election result but blaming anything other than the tactics and policy of the Labour party is just plain denial
     
    #225
  6. saintKlopp

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    Try telling that to the 40m in the USA and 14m or so in the UK who are officially below the poverty line.
    The trickle-down theory of economics is highly contentious, and in my view is an outright fallacy promoted by those who benefit from it in order to justify it to the rest.
    This isn't about a simple envy of the rich, nor about preventing people from accumulating any wealth, it is about a fairer distribution of the wealth a society creates amongst the people who create it.
     
    #226
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  7. THE FOOL

    THE FOOL Well-Known Member

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    I'll be honest here, I couldnt give a **** about trickle down , capitalist, socialist or ****ing alienist politics.

    In a world where one person can afford to give away 100million pound and not blink, while down the street a person has no home, no food and chance is wrong. Plain and simple

    You can argue till you black in the face about which political stance should be correct but while kids starve their us something wrong.

    Simple ad that
     
    #227
  8. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

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    Sadly this.
     
    #228
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  9. SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING

    SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING Well-Known Member

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    I agree with both <ok>. I think We just differ on with how to fix it....clearly the left and right ideologies that have been used for over a century don’t work. If we don’t try something new and address the issues, it will only get worse, unfortunately. Will leave it there lads <ok>
     
    #229
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  10. terrifictraore

    terrifictraore Well-Known Member

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    The issue with this line of argument is that the "poverty line" is a relative social construct that will always have a section of society classed as below the poverty line no matter what their actual standard of living is.
    Can't remember exact details of top of head but after the financial crisis when average earnings fell many people were lifted out of poverty because their income had remained the same.
    in any financial system there will always be people who have more and any system that doesn't have that is just not sustainable.
     
    #230

  11. Solid_Air 2

    Solid_Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    On the same tack if you increase means tested benefits it increases the number in poverty as that is one indicator. However there is no doubt imo that real poverty is definitely on the rise most obviously in the number of rough sleepers i see on my morning walks with my lunatic mutt which is massively increased in recent years .
     
    #231
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  12. ademuzzy

    ademuzzy Well-Known Member

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    In my line of work I frequently deal with the homeless. It's a sad sight and I hope we can support them, however I dont necessarily think that most are homeless because they have lost their job. In my experience it's poor mental health and addiction which has brought them to that scenario. It's a proven fact that mental health and addiction go hand in hand. It's also proven that 60% of mental health starts from when you are a child. I don't want people to starve and I don't want people to suffer. I actually think think that if we can figure out new mental health treatments and ways in which to support people we would see a massive drop in:
    Homelessness
    Crime
    Personality disorders
    Food bank usage

    You see all of those above are just a symptom of the issues people with poor m health go through. So throwing the most money at those things won't fix the problem.

    I have been very fortunate to have been In two massively important public sector jobs. The first one was for 8 years and I switched to another public sector career 2 years ago. I can tell you now, this newly elected government will not fix this.

    I'm gutted before the reality of the next 10 years for these people, it will be the same as it has always been. It also means for mine and any of your kids who go through issues with their mental health. They will not get the care in which they could have had.

    My first career showed me that more mental health support needs to take place at primary school level and I believe each school should have more psychologists on School site to support our future generations. If you have not read about ACE's I strongly recommend you do. The idea that bad childhood = **** adult life is nothing groundbreaking, however their are key things within that research which are scary such as, the damage is done to children before the age of 5. It was widely believed before, that children didn't remember the things before the age of 5. This is why mental health is so important in schools and why we need to get a grip of it fast. If it costs more money now then so be it, but in the longer term it would benefit our economy.

    My second career has shown me that unless that happens the future is bleak for our children who suffer from poor mental health. It has shown me that punative measures don't do anything and just gives the rest of the nation a break from said problem. For an average of 6 months at a time.

    This, along with climate change, are our most important challenges we face. Neither of which this government will deal with.
     
    #232
  13. terrifictraore

    terrifictraore Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if you live in Liverpool but for a while the city has had enough beds in shelters etc for everyone to get a bed. Vast majority of rough sleeping (especially prolonged) is due to substance abuse and/or mental health, the question of does poverty cause that addiction or mental health issue is a while other matter.
     
    #233
  14. ademuzzy

    ademuzzy Well-Known Member

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    See above :bandit:
     
    #234
  15. terrifictraore

    terrifictraore Well-Known Member

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    Yeah seen your far more comprehensive post after I posted mine. Not sure any other party in this country would try to fix the issues though, Corbyn's claim of ending homelessness was just another of the list that is very likely unachievable.
     
    #235
  16. ademuzzy

    ademuzzy Well-Known Member

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    At least he would have tried and he would have been the most likely out of all the party leaders to have adapted and tweaked until he got it right. We'd be closer to a solution in the next few years than we will be under the newly elected. Unfortunately the majority people are seeing a different bigger picture than myself. I also think the bigger picture they are seeing is massively distorted.

    My beliefs are based off my own experiences. Not from an office reading a news article online or a newspaper.
     
    #236
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  17. Solid_Air 2

    Solid_Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    nope don't live in the city but i'm prepared to stick my neck & say i'm fairly sure the rough sleepers i see are definitely in poverty :bandit: .
    So what is causing the sudden rise in rough sleeping if it isn't linked to poverty as addiction and mental health problems have been around for years.
    i used to see One of the guys around but haven't seen since the floods just his ruined tent washed up against a tree :emoticon-0101-sadsm
     
    #237
  18. ademuzzy

    ademuzzy Well-Known Member

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    No one isn't saying it isn't poverty. Poverty is another symptom of poor mental health. The sudden rise is linked to:
    People seeking a new life from another country
    Mental health
    People losing their jobs because they no longer exist and don't have the opportunity to re-train because of family circumstances.

    Universal credit is truly horrendous.

    In a nutshell I wasn't saying that people aren't there just because of a loss of jobs, I was saying the majority are their because of mental health.
     
    #238
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  19. lfcpower

    lfcpower Well-Known Member

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    There's plenty of people sleeping in tents and doorways around Liverpool city centre
     
    #239
  20. ademuzzy

    ademuzzy Well-Known Member

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    Same in Cardiff.
     
    #240
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