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General Sports Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by The Ides of March, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Both cars had mechanical issues . I doubt many would be saying the same if Valtteri was close behind Lewis .
     
    #4621
  2. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    I think it was just about getting team points and despite the mechanical issues, didn’t they both set the fastest lap, just before Norris did, to get inside Hamilton’s time?
     
    #4622
  3. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Indeed . My point is if Lewis was in front , this conversation would never have happened .
     
    #4623
  4. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    I think if the position was reversed, the conversation would have happened because the second placed of the two would have automatically been awarded first place once the 5 seconds had been deducted.
    The thought process wasn’t about giving Hamilton the win, but about giving him the chance to take a place on the podium and the extra team points that came with it.
    It never happened, so that is that.
     
    #4624
  5. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Actually yes . I see your point .
     
    #4625
  6. Saintmagic

    Saintmagic Well-Known Member

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    The taking the knee thing is weird to me. I watched the NFL game where it first happened and it was a powerful message. It was done during the national anthem (which is played before every NFL game) and everyone stands. So somebody taking a knee during it stood out and was powerful. It obviously led to some people saying that they were disrespecting America/the military/flag because insulting the anthem is sacrilege to a lot of Americans.

    Seeing it done in the PL just as a symbol doesn’t have anywhere near the same impact I think, it just looks a bit odd.
     
    #4626
  7. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s odd here...looks like they are waiting to be knighted. We aren’t America so doesn’t have the resonance. Smacks of jumping on a bandwagon...and when you do that you’d better be sure who else is on the wagon.
     
    #4627
  8. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    The bandwagon is kinda the idea, though. The intent is to convey that it is not the interest of one person or one country, but speaks to a greater problem in which everyone has a stake.

    Does kneeling in and of itself constitute substantive change? No. Doesn't mean it is not worthwhile though.
     
    #4628
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  9. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    That’s a different point altogether and I don’t think anyone has said different. I thought the point being discussed here was Hamilton telling the other drivers that if they don’t take the knee then they’re complicit with racism. I don’t agree with or like that. It was my point anyway.

    I support any anti-racism. I don’t support the accusation of people not joining in being compliant and I also don’t support the use of one campaign to drive another message, which BLM UK seem to be doing (I don’t know if it is the same in the US). The bandwagon is only a good idea if the right or original message is being followed. Fran’s last sentence seems to point to this part in particular to me.

    It’d be interesting to know what the original BLM message was/is and if it includes the disruption/defunding of policing, capitalism and imperialism.
     
    #4629
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  10. Saintmagic

    Saintmagic Well-Known Member

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    As far as I’m aware (happy to be proven wrong) Kaepernick taking the knee was all to do with police brutality in the US, it then branched out into all racism in society. Pretty sure the BLM movement had started prior to him taking the knee, I believe this started after a shooting of a black man by the police?
     
    #4630

  11. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    we are at crossed lines here... my line you put in bold was asking what the original BLM message was (not just since the taking of the knees) ie, was it anti-racism or was it also including defunding of police and the disruptions I mentioned?

    not the relation to taking the knee.
     
    #4631
  12. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    The original message of BLM was against racism in the US especially with regards to unfair treatment under the law and the higher risk of being killed by the police if you are black. As a side issue, the risk of being killed by the police whatever your hue is too high in America. This is related to the high level of gun violence resulting in their police being too hyped up by the fear of dying themselves. Too much of a get them before they get you attitude in both police and civilians.
    However, the original message has now been overtaken by other agendas hiding behind a demonstrably good movement.
     
    #4632
  13. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    My view is that you are all talking about a political subject on a sports thread.

    Please stop.
     
    #4633
  14. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    I'll repeat again that this is a decentralized movement rather than a hierarchical organization; there is no 'BLM leadership' writ large, and consequently the aims vary markedly from country to country.

    The original messaging was exactly what it says on the tin, really: in the wake of a number of killings (both by police and civilians) of black people where the killers walked free, to rally in the face of a system where black lives were deemed expendable. The overhaul of policing was a necessary component thereof, because i) the police were doing a lot of the killing, and ii) in instances where the police were not doing the killing, their general disinterest in pursuing the killers of black people was a bit of an issue. That has progressed to a belief that more drastic action is necessary largely because the police in the United States have demonstrated that they see nothing wrong with their actions and have zero interest in reforming. I agree with the protesters on this one. I understand that, from beyond the continent, that looks pretty radical. I'd argue that the actions of the police have become far more radical than any push to rein them in.

    I haven't seen any great push to end capitalism. A recognition that the 'free market' often manifests in ways that benefit one group over another, sure; An effort to destroy it? Not so much.

    Edit: will stop per Chilco.
     
    #4634
  15. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    will reply in politics thread
     
    #4635
  16. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Fernando is back...
     
    #4636
  17. Libby

    Libby 9-0

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    Yeah saw that. Mixed thoughts on it really but my gut says it's a mistake.
     
    #4637
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  18. saintrichie123

    saintrichie123 Well-Known Member

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    Yea with Renault.
     
    #4638
  19. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I feel a column coming on.

    EDIT: Not a euphemism...
     
    #4639
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  20. tomw24

    tomw24 Well-Known Member
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    Not sure what Vettel is going to do next season.
     
    #4640

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