has anybody got faith in waddock to keep us up

Discussion in 'Wycombe' started by Rocky blue army, Feb 2, 2012.

?

should waddock go

Poll closed Feb 16, 2012.
  1. waddock to stay

    8 vote(s)
    53.3%
  2. waddock to get the sack

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  3. waddock to resign

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Finchyblue

    Finchyblue Member

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    I don't know really Ron if a) whether he would do it or it b) would it be effective. Not sure if morale charts is really your average footballers thing and particularly if the manager has never tried this sort of thing with them before they may not really treat the situation seriously. That said sometimes team discussions, airing your grievances,etc can do some good. However it can also do further damage, if a lot of the grievances are with the manager and everybody airs them then it can undermine the manager.

    It also depends on if he is the kind of stubborn manager who genuinely believes he has the dressing room and is doing the job well and can't see why you would change things.

    It takes a lot for anybody to firstly admit they may not be doing a decent job and secondly openly going to your boss to say so!
     
    #41
  2. Rocky blue army

    Rocky blue army Well-Known Member

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    its interesting to know that most on here voted for waddock to stay
     
    #42
  3. Rocky blue army

    Rocky blue army Well-Known Member

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    please log in to view this image
    he looks like he has been watching the wanderers this season <laugh><laugh><laugh>
     
    #43
  4. Finchyblue

    Finchyblue Member

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    I hadn't actually voted but have now!!
     
    #44
  5. Rocky blue army

    Rocky blue army Well-Known Member

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    you going today finchy
     
    #45
  6. Finchyblue

    Finchyblue Member

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    Another fan???
     

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    #46
  7. Finchyblue

    Finchyblue Member

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    No I'm not mate. I don't go every week any more, the Mrs doesn't let me and also its very expensive to watch frequently bad games!!
     
    #47
  8. Bilversack

    Bilversack Member

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    That's all well and good Finchy but you are making a massive assumption that they would come to us. Rhino would have got out of footy for a reason (i.e. he likes carpets presumably) and Scotty will never be Wycombe manager whilst Steve Hayes is in charge, a) because Hayes won't let him after his comments on the ownership and b) Scotty probably wouldn't want to touch us with a barge pole.

    Steve Brown is a big Tweeter, and is a big fan of us, but I'd hazard a guess looking at his views on Twitter he wouldn't join either.

    Afraid this isn't a particularly objective viewpoint Finchy - we were never going to keep Trotta, Ibe or Harris, no matter how popular Waddock was doing. Personally I don't feel Betsy wasn't cutting the mustard that much in Lg 2 last season so I wonder why people lament his loss. A great servant to the club and I'll always have 100% respect for him, but not League 1 quality IMO. So taking all that into mind, his **** signings total Rendell (who wasn't **** last season), Harding, Benyon and Halls. He has made some poor signings, but not a lot. And transfer dealings doesn't reflect on Waddock's tactical nouse at all - it reflects on the financial situation of the club.
     
    #48
  9. Rocky blue army

    Rocky blue army Well-Known Member

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    jock i think finchy was answering my post on a brownie rhino parnership not saying that they would come <ok>
     
    #49
  10. Rocky blue army

    Rocky blue army Well-Known Member

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    in my opinion keeping waddock
    please log in to view this image
     
    #50

  11. Finchyblue

    Finchyblue Member

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    Jock - the viewpoint isn't just about the quality of players going out as clearly Harding and Benyon were not good enough. It is the shear number of players out compared to players in. For a team that was struggling anyway, to lose/get rid of so many with far less coming in is alarming. I don't believe I suggested anywhere above that his transfer dealings specifically reflected his tactical nouse. His transfer dealings and his tactical nouse, when considered independently are poor. However, I do think it is slightly short sighted to just consider them independently as players you sign and the tactics you employ should go hand in hand, because as a manager you should have an idea of the way you like to play and so you would sign players who would best employ those tactics.

    Yes I would imagine we have a relatively small budget but I am sure there are a fair number of clubs in the same boat as us in this division. However, the players he has signed have been no better and at times worse than we already had.

    Waddock's poor/no more than average signings extend far beyond that: Tunnicliffe (poor), Foster (poor), Sandell (I stand by this, scored a few goals last season but a terrible full back with a stinking attitude), Winfield (is no more than average and at times very poor), Grant (average and disappears from games for long periods of time), Strevens (was poor last year and not good enough). Lewis was decent in league 1 but ineffective at this level. McCoy, potentially promising but still a long way off but potentially one for the future.

    Jock who do you genuinely feel was a good Waddock signing? How many of the players he has signed have you felt I am glad they are a Wycombe player? Bull, definitely yes and Ainsworth was, yes but now past it and not good enough. Trotta was a good loan signing as well. Beyond that I struggle to think of any.

    With regards to Betsy, I don't necessarily feel he would have been the answer to all of our problems (and I don't think I have said that anywhere) but he simply wasn't given a chance this season, even at a time when we were short of wingers. Grant was underperforming, Ainsworth was underperforming but yet Waddock chose to use Strevens, who is not even a winger to play on the wing. Betsy was inconsistent last year but still had a number of decent games and I think would have been a better wide option than Strevens.

    It is hard to know what is right Jock as its an uncomfortable situation and unfortunately with Mr Hayes still being around and being silent on his intentions, it is hard to see what will happen with the club. I hope I am wrong in respect of Waddock and that he turns things around as he does come across as a decent bloke and doesn't try to whinge at fans (like Lambert and Sanchez used to). The thing that puzzled me the most about Waddock is that in his first part-season at this level he, with Taylor's weak squad got us playing some football and even though we went down, we went down with a bit of pride and were trying to entertain. This time round, with Waddock's squad, that football has disappeared and has so has the spirit.
     
    #51
  12. ThaiCanary

    ThaiCanary Well-Known Member

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    Just for the record I did not vote, didn't want to skew the result <laugh>
     
    #52
  13. Bilversack

    Bilversack Member

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    A lot of that goes without saying Finchy, of course tactics and signings go hand in hand. And you've hit the nail on the head in that we played some great football at the start of last season - I have a feeling a lot of that was to do with Ainsworth and he's not an option any more. I feel Bull was a fantastic signing and I also think Rendell was a good signing. Personally I really feel for Rendell, he was hardly given a chance in a season after a massive personal tragedy, I'm not quite sure what was expected of him this season but he wasn't really given a good go. I also feel McCoy is good enough to be a league 1 squad player currently and will only get better. Trotta was good, despite the droners moaning about his effort, and I also think Rowlands and Donnelly were both great and very unfortunate they got injured. In fact I think Donnelly's injury has been a massive blow to us - a good example of where tactics go hand in hand. We really needed that attacking midfield style as was demonstrated by the game I went to at Hartlepool where him and Beavs linked up so well and both scored fantastic goals.

    So in my opinion Waddock's made 6 good signings. Like many others on here I am completely stumped (as I am sure Waddock is) with what happened with Benyon, everyone on here was genuinely excited by his arrival and it's peculiar he's not been as good as he has been before. Of course Waddock must take the blame for that, but, say, only as much blame as Mancini should take for Tevez' attitude (slightly different level I know!) I thought in your last post you were talking about only signings since December which is why I didn't go further back.

    Wadds tactics haven't necessarily been terrible, just pretty one-diminesional. But I go back to what I've always said - you can't hire a manager with Waddock's record and expect immediate results. That happens once in a blue moon (a la Martin O'Neill) and generally if you're going to hire relatively inexperienced managers then I think you should stick with them for at least a few seasons, especially if they do give you some success, which Waddock has. Waddock has been bad here this season but he's only managed for a few seasons. If you're going to get someone in of that experience, they should be stuck with. See Clough at Derby County. I'm not saying Waddock's good - what I am saying is if we hire someone like that, we should let them learn their trade.

    We will probably go down, but on paper that means we're still at a level as when Waddock took over (OK we were at the foot of League 1 but no-one could have got us out of the mess that Taylor had left at that point in the season).

    I just don't know anyone who could fit two very important attributes needed to replace Waddock - a) they want to come and b) they're good enough. THere's just no one there, so IMO sacking Waddock isn't an option. Might as well stick with him, bleed in some youth players, get shot of some of the higher paid players to keep the wage bill down and see what happens - we might even win a few with some enthusiastic pacy young players in there.

    Overall, we are in a mess - but I'd say 10% of that is Waddock's fault. The rest lies firmly with a passive, uninterested, clueless, materially-motivated board. And nothing will get better - no matter who is manager - until they've gone.
     
    #53
  14. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    I agree morale charts sounds a bit formal. In practice one ends up with morale charts; how they are arrived at depends on the personnel of course. In this case it would be via one to one discussions. Or they could be paired of and just jot down their points. If the manager is the problem then shirking this responsibility will make matters worse. He has to face the possibility that he might be the problem and, if so, be positive about what he can do about it; he can only gain more respect from the players.

    The fact is, there is a problem and no-one seems to be addressing it. As manager it is his duty to identify the problem, whatever or whoever it is, and address it and be seen to be addressing it, with some urgency.

    These things may not always be a pleasant experience but that should never be an excuse to do nothing and let things fester.

    I have very strong views about management. The thing that matters most is the team; its morale and its performance. Without a dedicated and well motivated team one cannot expect performance and without such a team, the manager is of very little use.
     
    #54
  15. rockinchairboy

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    With Waddock when things work they work well and that is proven with his track record. He needs to work on changing the plan. Lets face it he hasn't had the best budget to attrack better players. The loan players that he has got have been ggod particularly strikers which shows he has got an eye for tallent but can't afford to buy.
    Lets keep getting behind Waddock and the team and get positive!
     
    #55
  16. rockinchairboy

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    Anyone else finding that their points are not going up?
    Ron can you check this out seem to have been stuck on this number for a couple of weeks.
     
    #56
  17. Rocky blue army

    Rocky blue army Well-Known Member

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    my points have been the same for ages as well
     
    #57
  18. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Only just noticed?

    I was on level 100 and 30,000 points. A few strange things have happened recently. Mick has been moving house and will look into it as soon as he has his internet access set up. Currently he's operating from his mobile phone.
     
    #58
  19. Finchyblue

    Finchyblue Member

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    I agree on some aspects Jock, I thought Rendell was a good signing at the time and his goal return last season considering the tragedy he suffered was commendable. That said he was deemed surplus to requirements early into the season, which is either due to him, in which case you question was he really a good signing, especially considering the transfer fee or was it the manager's fault, in terms of simply not picking him? Either which way neither leaves the manager smelling of roses.

    I think in the Tevez situation, Mancini has actually acted pretty well. Tevez has history with his whole I hate Manchester act and want to leave. That was the reason he left United, only two weeks later to sign for City. Nearly every season since he has whinged at times about wanting to leave. I think, again just my opinion, that Waddock picked Benyon off the back of one performance against us last season. The fact that Swindon deemed him surplus to requirements in league 2, speaks volumes in my mind.

    I agree with the fact that we would in a sense be no worse off than when Taylor left in that we were doomed with that squad. However, is it not disappointing that we have made absolutely no progress in two and a half years? Its not a case of expecting instant progress, 2 and a half years in and generally poor football and dubious tactics. I would at least expect something positive, some progress but I just don't see that there has been any.

    Also you comment about bleeding the youth and getting rid of the high earners. Not something I disagree with but also something I don't think likely to happen as Waddock would have brought the high earners in or extended their contracts. They are his players, if he gets rid of them, isn't just he just likely to replace them with players of the same ilk?

    That said, I planning on ranting and slagging the manager off every week on a Saturday as it now appears to be a good luck omen!!! What with a win and 2 teams around us losing!!! :)
     
    #59
  20. gravey5174

    gravey5174 Member

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    If you perhaps try 25 years of watching devon you might be a bit more accurate and its not that laughable anyway as rocky points out everyone has to start somewhere. Besides what has the more experienced manager acheived this season? O yeah presided over a team that continues throughout to struggle to deal with anything defensively. The defensive issues have been there all season so the experience there is clearly not having a positive effect rectifying these issues.

    Granted it may well not change if brown was in charge but it certainly would be entertaining purely because we all know what he would be like. Pride, passion and commitment would be provided by the bucket load.

    But as has been mentioned i don't think waddock will go now because of his contract and the result from the weekend will bide him time but he is not the answer anymore.
     
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