Has VAR gone beyond a joke?

Discussion in 'Bristol City' started by invermeremike, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. realred1952

    realred1952 Well-Known Member

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    we do not have real referee's now ...in my latter working years I was in transport and logistics up to age 72! you needed to be a map reader and route finder till gps etc became the norm … now anyone can do the job I did!
    imagine 4 deliveries in London! spread out! and the map book was about 120 pages + .. didn't say no entry! [ latterly in zone or out ] … and when you got to edge of page it was not just turn the leaf it was x pages more or less and continued top middle or bottom! … ref's now keep up with play "almost, as no need to as Var is there " … slightest doubt ...var.. used to be "thinking on their feet, is that ok, was that ok, etc etc" …. just puppets now.
     
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  2. AshtonRed

    AshtonRed Well-Known Member

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    Didn’t see the Grealish incident, but the ref has discretion, don’t see an incident tbh, the offside in the cup final I thought was a correct decision, it seemed clear and obvious to me, no lines drawn and use of slide rules, just plain offside.
     
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  3. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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  4. AshtonRed

    AshtonRed Well-Known Member

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    #24
  5. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    #25
  6. AshtonRed

    AshtonRed Well-Known Member

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    Should have breathed out after the ball was played then <laugh><laugh>
     
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  7. realred1952

    realred1952 Well-Known Member

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    He was in forward motion and the ball was still at foot of player [ at the point of it was "about" to be kicked] a close one... and correct...
     
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  8. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    level as the ball was played which is onside isnt it??? and doesnt var have a margin of error or summat???
     
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  9. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Yes and yes. VAR has a margin of error of up to 38cm. VAR is not advanced enough to record consistently the exact split second the ball was played.
     
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  10. Angelicnumber16

    Angelicnumber16 Well-Known Member

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    About time they took it away permanently.
     
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  11. Reliant Robin TC2

    Reliant Robin TC2 Active Member

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    So, what really is the point of it then? It seems that a gnat's nadger can be the difference between onside and offside, yet when the ball was played it's there or thereabouts!!
     
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    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  12. realred1952

    realred1952 Well-Known Member

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    at walking pace a 1yd step is about .53 of a second, they use something like 40fps - 50 fps lets say 40 fps as a default ! so in .5 secs that's 20 frames so each frame is .025 sec [ rough conversion of yard to metric is 90cms ] = .5 sec so each frame = 45mm [ or less than 2" ]
    they can advance 1 frame at a time so sounds simple! however the speed with which the foot comes into contact with the ball is likely to be sufficient to propel the ball at 100 kph or about 15metres in .5 secs or 375 mm in .025 secs. the art is getting the first frame of the kicker in contact then see where the overlay on the offender puts any part of his body!
    it is not really that simple though super camera's can be good to .001 sec maybe 200fps +
    even with "error" [ there other mitigating factors like camera angle etc to consider ] the ability of var is pretty good … but is the operator?
     
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  13. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Its certainly not being used to assist referees where there is a clear error.

    VAR is 50 fps. One picture every 0.02 seconds. VAR has to identify a frame where its certain the ball has been made contact with. This leaves a clear margin of error that can be 38cm. Players can be moving that quickly (20mph+) between contact and no contact with the ball, frame to frame and a player going in the opposite direction at pace. Reduce speed to 15 mph margins of error become 13 cm.

    VAR has been used to give decisions far below its margins of error v running players e.g. 2cm.

    A possible means of improvement could be the use of line that relates to VAR's error margin being applied and if a player is outside this margin he is offside.
     
    #33
  14. realred1952

    realred1952 Well-Known Member

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    AS STATED used a compromise to determine the case in question EVERYCASE is different my working out was 37.5cms based on arbitory figures, an algorithm would be needed to determine every aspect or situation, but most important, is accurately calibrated camera's .. voltage could alter FPS, camera angles have a bearing, distance between subjects and motion in 360 perspective ..you cannot state with any accuracy down to 20mm … fps is frames per second so 50 fps or 20 fps or 40 fps all give a different picture what happens in the space between frames is as important as what doesn't, the greater the field of view the less the accuracy … a circa 100m boundary, corner flag to corner flag would theoretically need a camera every 50 -100 cms, to cover a ground would need over 300+ cameras … VAR WOULD LIKELY TAKE 5 +MINS! ..[.would need operator to select correct camera' camera's then crunch info then select frame to be used ]
    Current system is fine.. might need just a small tweak... maybe another 40 or 60 cameras …. REF'S ARE HUMAN ERRORS … VAR OPERATOR IS HUMAN ERROR …..
     
    #34
  15. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

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    If offered to the referees themselves as a ‘fallback’, with the offer of team captains being able to request it under the threat of a yellow card for time wasting if the original decision is upheld, it COULD be really useful.
    The way it’s being used at the moment however is worse than useless.
    I smell a conspiracy.......
     
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  16. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    VAR tonight at Old Trafford. Just silly players stood around getting cold hands on hips waiting to see if VAR could find a mm or two of Bobby Reid sticking out in front of players who were forty metres away. Its ****.
     
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    Angelicnumber16 and Redprintt like this.

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