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How long should Ron get to turn things around?

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by tomw24, Dec 19, 2015.

  1. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Mmm I don't think it's all been crap. The results have been but on amongst the gloom there's been some light, which is probably why there has been some "discussions" on here.
     
    #321
  2. Channonfodder

    Channonfodder Rebel without a clue.....

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    Agreed. I wasn't that impressed with Spurs, other than how they took advantage of 4 minutes of bizarre defending. They certainly didn't look miles better than us. We just need a bit of confidence, and to remove the cows and banjos from staplewood.
     
    #322
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  3. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    My last post in this thread (or any other Ramirez love in threads)

    Ramirez over Davis? You are having a laugh.
    Ramirez better than Lallana? You are having a hysterical fit.

    2 proper DMs? I agree but we already do. Problem is normally that Wanyama now thinks he is Morgan whereas he should remain the destroyer and let Romeu / Clasie try and be Morgan. Davis should not be in DM he should be in the AM....way ahead of Ramirez.

    So Palace played the same formation as us then? 4 up front, one ball playing DM and one ball winning DM? What is your point here?

    We're not obsessed with playing Wanyama, he has been poor. Problem is that even poor he is at the moment a better option than Clasie and Romeu looks more ike the ball player than the destroyer. I wouldn't want him having to make too many tackles put it that way. If you want Reed in for Wanyama then I'm happy enough with that.

    Davis' AM game is suffering from the DM mess up behind him. Ramirez would suffer the same. If you hadn't noticed Davis is on top of his game, scoring at will for his country. Davis brings much more than hard work to that role. He is side to side, linking things up.

    You need to wake up and stop focusing on stats and numbers. Lallana brought much more to the side than that final ball or goals. Just having him on the park gave other players confidence, gave them more space as he drew more defenders and beat players. He did loads more things that Ramirez has never shown he can do but I am not wasting hours researching for a pointless argument. Lallana is gone and Ramirez soon will be. Get over it. 3 managers have.
     
    #323
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  4. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    I was actually thinking this the other day when someone was saying Bertrand isn't playing so well and that maybe he thinks he is something else now he's an England regular. I was thinking it might be more to do with Toby being so solid and positionally disciplined whereas Virgil after a cracking start, now seems to get headrushes and think he is still playing in the SPL where Celtic can put all 10 outfield players in and around the opposition box all game.
     
    #324
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  5. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps we could put VVD on a short bungee rope tied to a goalpost.....though there would be the risk that recoil would fling him into the crowd. Could get a nasty Bovril burn in the Chapel.
     
    #325
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  6. davecg69

    davecg69 Well-Known Member

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    Good post, Imp! I think exactly the same, but don't want to get into a slagging match with anyone. Davis is a far better player than a lot of people think. Certainly he's a million miles more effective than Gaston and the sooner we get Gaston off our books the better in my opinion.
    Victor has been poor, but you're right, he's trying to do a Morgan and he's not got the skill for that. Stay as a destroyer and let the others do the skill stuff.
    We are definitely no worse than most of the clubs in the PL - we just need some confidence. A scrappy 1-0 win against the Arse and everyone would suddenly be happier. We just need to stay focused and get behind the team!!
     
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  7. Velcro Roy

    Velcro Roy Well-Known Member

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    Dave,I'd be bloody ecstatic with a 1-0 win against the Arsenal,then my 3hr journey home on Boxing day evening wouldn't be so bad.
    Which dick thought that one up? Anyway happy Christmas everyone.
     
    #327
  8. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    I suggest we get him a pair of full backs for Christmas, that way he won't keep getting disorientated and wandering off.
     
    #328
  9. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    Ramirez and Davis are different players who do different things. That's the problem with comparing them.

    Ramirez will never hold possession as well as Davis. Davis will never score and create as well as Ramirez.
     
    #329
  10. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    No. This is what's known as the Gambler's Fallacy. That simply because you had good luck, you are due for bad luck or vice versa.

    Regression to the mean simply means you don't stay lucky. If you have won 5 straight games, but your expected result is 2 wins out of every 5 games, then in your next 5 games, you will be expected to win 2 of them. And 2 of the next 5 after that, and 2 of the next 5, etc. So after you have played 100 games, your record will be pretty close to what was expected in the first place.

    If you flip a coin and get five straight heads, what are your odd of getting heads on your next flip? It's still 50%. Each coin flip is an independent event that is uninfluenced by anything that came before it.
     
    #330

  11. shoot_spiderman

    shoot_spiderman Power to the People

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    "hard work beats talent if the talent doesn't work hard"
    Steve Davis always works hard and some of the 'talent' isn't matching his effort
    Matty could get away with it because he was a bloomin genius :angel:
     
    #331
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  12. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    Davis has been rather crap lately. Nothing is ever his fault around here, though.
     
    #332
  13. Channonfodder

    Channonfodder Rebel without a clue.....

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    Well, yes, for coins but every time you spin the coin (or play a match) the number of trials increases and as that's the number of trials gets larger, the deviation from the mean tends towards zero. We play 38 games. I don't think that our results from the last 5 ganes will be repeated for the rest of the season.
     
    #333
  14. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    That's a pretty silly comment from someone who normally posts sensibly. Davis hasn't played well recently at all..... and nor have Saints. Now give me a few minutes and I'll come up with a mathematical explanation to that, that doesn't suggest that Steven Davis often makes us tick.
     
    #334
  15. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    I'm not singling out Davis. I'm just saying that he really hasn't played well recently. Agree that he's not the only one whose been bad.

    He's just the only one who never takes any criticism for it.

    When Wanyama is bad (which he really hasn't been) it's "Wanyama can't hold a candle to Schneiderlin." "Wanyama isn't providing cover for the back four." "Wanyama doesn't feel like playing."

    When Steven Davis is bad, what we get is "Boy is Steven Davis is so important to the team! We play so much better when he's good." Or "Yeah, it's everyone else's fault Davis sucks. They need to play better so he can!" Somehow his craptacular play gets turned into a compliment.

    And I'll throw this out there, too. If Wanyama were white and from the UK and Davis were black and foreign... I don't think people's opinions would be the same.
     
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  16. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Now I am going to leave you to this because I think that last statement is utter bullshit and personally, I find it offensive for you to suggest it. I don't think we have any issues like that on this board now.

    Read my sentence again "Steve Davis hasn't played well recently"... no context to it, simply that. You should also waste some time looking back through the hours I spent defending Vic; I've always been a massive fan of his. When you've found that, then go back to last season's match thread v Spuds around April time and the absolute pounding Davis got in that.

    Have a good Christmas.
     
    #336
  17. Tintin

    Tintin Well-Known Member

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    I have no clue about the bottom part.

    All I will say is that Davis is painfully over-rated. Generally plays in the three behind the striker in 4-2-3-1. Has practically no end product. No one we play against will be remotely worried about Davis.

    Would you be more worried about an opponent that has no end product and doesn't actually make that many tackles + interceptions or more worried about an attacker that has pretty decent end product? I know the answer will be the same every time. I'm worried about opponent attackers with end product, not players like Davis. I'd play Ramirez over Ramirez every time at ACM or on the wings. It's not like Davis is a godly ball winner or whatever. Actually when Ramirez got a good run in his first season his tackles plus interceptions per 90 were better than Davis' this season and his creativity was far higher. Cue whining and crying about stats. I'm including them, not saying they are everything. I'd play Ramirez every time over Davis in the three behind the centre forward.

    I want goals and creativity from the three behind the centre forward personally. Not a 'hard worker' that doesn't even win the ball back that much. Imagine having three Davis' behind Pelle/Long/Mane. Actually don't imagine that, it would be a nightmare..

    Contrast that with three Ramirez' behind Pelle/Long/Mane..you'd be getting so many more goals it would be laughable in comparison
     
    #337
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
  18. Tintin

    Tintin Well-Known Member

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    I stopped reading after the 3rd line.

    I said I'd play Ramirez over Davis under certain conditions. That was in the three behind the centre forward. That's an opinion. If you don't agree tough luck.

    I never said Ramirez was better than Lallana. I said he was a better AMC for me and that I'd maybe play him on the right too over Lallana (although I mentioned I hadn't seen much of Ramirez there). I said Lallana's versatility meant there wasn't much to choose between them overall. Again my opinion. But I'd play Ramirez over Lallana every time at AMC in this team, with Mane and Tadic on the flanks. That's my opinion. I shouldn't have to repeat myself, learn to read and process information.

    Nice job debating. Actually argue why you think a player is better in future, rather than talking absolute trash. Another tip for you: get the facts right first and don't lie about what I've said (this isn't something new here, this seems to be the norm as almost all posters seem to be lying in arguments on here.)
     
    #338
  19. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    I'm not attacking anything you've said specifically. I'm just talking about the general tone around the board.

    I like Davis. I would describe him as "solid." No more, no less. He's a good player for a mid-table side, which is pretty much what we are. As a general rating, I would rank a tad bit lower than Wanyama, but not really sure I'd argue over the difference. He is important to the side, but also no more important than Wanyama. Neither one of them has been all that great lately, because the team overall has been somewhat poor.

    Except you could probably count at least ten posts critical of Wanyama in the last week or so, and at least ten posts positive of Davis (not just in comparison to Ramirez). Wanyama was not responsible for either of the goals scored against us last week. Davis's bad giveaway was partially responsible for the counter attack that scored.
     
    #339
  20. Tintin

    Tintin Well-Known Member

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    Wanyama is a nailed on DM starter and always will be I imagine. He's done ok this season and torn apart recently for no reason on here imo. Davis does **** all half the time and people love him no matter what. I agree.

    Gave the ball away and failed to take the man down to prevent the counter. Absolutely. I still blame the defence for that goal, but they were all over Yoshida when he did something similar against Man City. I wrote a big post in support of Yoshida after .

    End of the day who really gives a **** what sheep think. If people can't think you themselves then that's their problem.
     
    #340

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