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I fear a drubbing!!

Discussion in 'Ipswich Town' started by Spanish, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Southcoastoldgaffer

    Southcoastoldgaffer Well-Known Member

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    Valid point SD. Pompey, down the road from me, went into administration, reformed as supporters Trust, indpired and driven by the community, similar size and scope as Ipswich, and now thrive and have kept the fan base, under new committed owner & manager, got it right. If I was 20 yrs younger I would initiate such a move with the right team. But a real challenge in the pandemic obviously. I am sure there many up Suffolk who think the same way.
     
    #41
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  2. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    Nevermind getting Mick McCarthy in earlier. We should have kept Magic. Nobody we have had since has matched his love of the club or brand of football.
     
    #42
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  3. itfcptc

    itfcptc Well-Known Member

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    I have no words to describe where we are as a club at the moment. The worst thing for me, is I accept we are where we are due to the squad, injuries etc. which to me says the problems go far beyond the manager.

    I haven't been impressed with Lamberts tactical decisions this season but when you stand back and look at the experience in the squad and the injuries we've had its hardly surprising we are struggling and it's the same story as last year. If we sack Lambert would it change anything? Any manager coming here will be hamstrung by having Evans as owner, every manager he has appointed has had success on their CV but never come close to replicating that here.

    The only half decent season we've had in his 13 years since he's been here is where we got to the playoffs and that was because we had a striker who was on fire but the rest of the team was pretty average (just solid) and the football wasn't great. It can't be a coincidence that in 13 years we haven't ever looked consistently good under any manager or had a good cup run. I've lost all hope that this will ever turn around.
     
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  4. fieldmarshall

    fieldmarshall Well-Known Member

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    I agree absolutely with the last two posts, but apart from the decline on the pitch which is as obvious as it was predictable what I can never forgive Evans for is draining the life and enthusiasm out of our Club.
    My partner and I no longer have season tickets and have no desire to get one, we used to love going to away matches and have been to dozens of grounds some of them three or four times but now we wouldn't even consider it, I used to know the next few fixtures but now I haven't a clue and quite frankly I'm struggling to maintain interest as Evans strangles the life out of ITFC from the inside.
    All in all this spiral has continued for years and Evans does nothing to stop it, transfer income during his tenure exceeds £50M with huge profits being made on Mings, Wickham, Waghorn, Cresswell, Webster etc, but these players sometimes were not replaced at all or we signed some pub team benchwarming sicknote for a pittance whilst being fed the annual nauseating fairy tale that the Club had lost yet another £ 6 - 9M.
    If anyone can't see what Evans is doing then they must be stupid or related to him, I've been saying it for years EVANS OUT !
     
    #44
  5. Bigalreigned

    Bigalreigned Well-Known Member

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  6. itfcptc

    itfcptc Well-Known Member

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    Whats the point, will it change anything? Changes are needed which go beyond the manager and its going to take more than a season to sort out.
     
    #46
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  7. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    If Dyer and Butcher came in now we would at least make the play offs. Otherwise we have no chance.
     
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  8. itfcptc

    itfcptc Well-Known Member

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    Apart from being former Ipswich players who love the club, what are we going on that they would be any good?

    Butcher has pretty much failed as a manager and Dyer has zero experience in professional management and doesn't strike me as someone who has the temperament for it.

    Unless they're both qualified physios and you think they'd be able to make sure our players are fit?

    Actually perhaps we should get in Nigel Adkins as he used to be a physio.
     
    #48
  9. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    They would have a far better mentality than Lambert and they would spark some enthusiasm in everyone involved with the club. They can see all the obvious things that are wrong with how we set up just the same that we can. They would not keep signing loanees who are available because of their terrible form and injuries. They would demand performances and not pretend they had them when we have been beaten. There’s quite a long list of what would be different.

    Again the temperament thing is baselessly levelled at Dyer and it has no merit whatsoever.
     
    #49
  10. itfcptc

    itfcptc Well-Known Member

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    I'm going what I've heard in interview but happy to be proven wrong. What base are you getting your information from about Butcher and Dyer have they said to you what they would do if they took over? Sounds like you're talking in facts
     
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  11. Nuggets

    Nuggets Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the issues at this club go far beyond the manager. Unless there is greater accountability at the top of the club - and more thought put into the structure, running, and investment behind the scenes - then our club is going to continue to mill around divisions two and three. Even experienced managers who have achieved promotions before - such as Keane, Jewell, and McCarthy - ultimately failed to do so under Evans' ownership. Part of that is down to the owner and how he runs this club.

    I do disagree that we'd fail to get promotion regardless of our manager though. I believe somebody like a Paul Cook or the 'Cowley brothers' would change the tactical approach, style of play, and mentality of the squad. In my opinion, those managers have the experience, record, and personalities to effect noticeable, beneficial change on the pitch - if Ipswich is a club that appeals to them. This squad is demonstrably poorly coached, we can see that from the games. I believe there is some quality and experience in there. I don't think it is a stretch to believe that a stronger, more tactically progressive coach - with a record of inspiring a squad to be greater than the sum of its parts - would achieve promotion from what looks to be a division low on quality. Paul Lambert does not provide that and has not enabled that in his two years and more at the club. There is little evidence he can turn it around.

    Of course, for a realistic chance of consistent, long-term success and development, we need a change at all levels. At the moment, we have a club that is poorly run and appears behind the curve in comparison to most professional clubs. We have an owner that does not seem to care about the club he owns. We seem to have a serious issue with our approach to medical science and physiotherapy. Our scouting and transfer record is pretty conservative and narrow-minded. Some players in the squad have far too much power and influence, which should be removed. Some players have been in poor form for a number of years now and are dining out on prior achievements or the promise of potential. Our manager is frequently outthought by rival managers during games. Our manager still has not developed a discernible style of play or an approach to attacking teams. Our manager is falling out with people left, right, and centre - and has been behind the strange decision to ban members of the press from the ground. It's all contributing to where we find ourselves now. And I don't blame people for switching off and not looking forward to returning to Portman Road and going to matches when fans are allowed back in grounds again.

    TL/DR - we're f***ed.
     
    #51
  12. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t spoken to him recently but I know Kieron very well and the problems we have now are the same problems we’ve had for years.

    Not to say we would definitely be promoted this season but we have no chance as things stand with Lambert. I feel like if we make a change now we might get lucky but if we can build a bit of positive momentum over the rest of the season we’ll have a far better chance next season.
     
    #52
  13. Nuggets

    Nuggets Well-Known Member

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    I know people can change and that some people don't view retail workers as particularly human - but when I worked at the Cineworld in Ipswich several years ago, Dyer was by far the rudest of the current / ex Ipswich footballers.

    Of course that behaviour shouldn't preclude him from getting the Ipswich job, but I can hold unreasonable grudges haha!
     
    #53
  14. itfcptc

    itfcptc Well-Known Member

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    Yes exactly we've had 5 ME appointments all with success on their CV and its all gone the same way. The only difference seems to be he seems to back a less experienced manager in the transfer market than a more experienced one who usually has to pick up the pieces of a couple of disastrous transfer windows.

    I am concerned by Lamberts tactics but I do struggle at the moment to think anyone could do better, our injury record is abysmal (and has been for some time), and i can't name one player in our squad who has shown any consistency at this level or above for seasons which tells me our squad is made up on injury prone, has beens, or inexperienced youngsters or lower league players who as Mick used to say you can't hand your hat on. There's not one player out there who I'm certain could make still be playing football at this level in a couple of seasons either due to their injury record, fact their close to retirement (and struggling) or have yet to consistently perform over a number of games maybe with the exception of Flynn Downes and he's had a long injury this season. That's not to say we don't have talent, we do have a talented squad but whats the point if we can't get the minutes or consistency out of them.

    If Lambert does go, I would be in favour of the managers you suggest Nuggets (maybe add Paul Tisdale to it) but part of me thinks whats the point, he won't be able to invest in the squad, he will basically still have Hursts league 2 team plus academy players and have to play Micks Irish league striker who's barely played any football at a professional level.

    It is also gutting, because whats happened to Paul Lambert, what he did at Norwich was amazing, they were a side with confidence, they played good football but it was pragmatic, they were crafty, had that confidence, had a great balance to the team and the team was greater than the sum of its parts. At the time he struck me as a manager who knew exactly what he was doing and how he wanted his team to play, I haven't felt that since he's been at Ipswich. Whether that's because circumstances have changed or he's being put under pressure by the owner I'm not sure.

    I agree about certain players having too much influence, im assuming you mean Chambers who has been a good servant to the club and is passionate but it appears its affected his performances and doesn't appear to have a great influence on the pitch. Strikes me as a little bit like Joe Hart for England a few years ago, where he was too revved up for a game.
     
    #54
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  15. San Diego

    San Diego Sir Mediator
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    Well I'm going to disagree with some of your points, ptc mate <ok>

    I do think another manager could do better here, Lambert is clearly not getting the best out of the players. You say not enough players show consistency, let's look at why that is.
    Too much rotation in the squad allowing no decent partnerships to develop.
    Playing a system players are either not comfortable with or not coached well enough to execute.
    Players playing out of position - I'll give some examples....
    Edwards - clearly said in his last post match interview that he plays better on the left and that most of his goals have come from that side, is he used there? Not as much as he is on the right.
    Sears - has said numerous times he prefers to play through the middle in a 2. He's not been given that chance very often.
    Dozzell - would anyone call Andre a midfield enforcer? No but he's being asked to do that.
    Chambers - has always said he prefers CB.
    Jackson - again, better in a two up front.

    Management isn't difficult, you talk to your team, find out their strengths and weakness and put them to work on a task that best suits them. You don't just come into a company and try to implement your own ideas without having the right staff to accomplish what you want. If I had a small clothing business with 1 industrial sewing machine and I employed an engineer and a seamstress would it make sense to have the engineer make the clothes and the seamstress fix the machine when it breaks?

    A good, effective team does not necessarily need to made up of brilliant individuals but can be achieved by utilising people in their best roles. There are important partnerships that are needed throughout a football team. The winger with his full back, the two in midfield, the CBs, the strikers. Lambert is failing to put any semblance of a coherent team together so it's no wonder the results are below average.
     
    #55
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  16. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    If we just put some faith in Donacien in place of Chambers this season, who is in no way a right back, we would have seen a more settled defence.

    Always play two strikers capable of putting the ball in the net even if it means playing Edwards forward or promoting teenagers.

    If we did that the midfield could concentrate on playing midfield and not covering all the time.

    Without any magic wand transfer solution and still with terrible fitness coaching we’d at least be doing the basics and we’d be in the promotion mix.
     
    #56
  17. itfcptc

    itfcptc Well-Known Member

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    San Diego, I do not disagree with your points, in fact I agree, especially with regards to Sears, he's looked useless as a wide forward but put him in a 2 and its a different story.

    But playing devils advocate what would you have done differently? I agree certain players are better in certain positions but if you play them there it would leave gaps elsewhere where we simply didn't have the personnel at the time.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  18. itfcptc

    itfcptc Well-Known Member

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    Again I don't really disagree with you but Donacien has never set the world alight and that would mean moving Chambers back to CB which I get the appeal of because it would be good to have some experience back there but I can't remember the last time Chambers had a good game at CB infant I think it could be in Micks first season which would make it what 2012/13?

    Again I've always argued for playing 2 strikers, I don't like having 1 striker but there's been many games when we haven't had the personnel to play 2 strikers, as we've had so many injuries, many of them long term. And like you I remember saying last season if we haven't got enough fit senior players, play the youngsters and i remember Lambert did and it was so clear why he hadn't in the past because they were so out of their depth (not to say they won't develop into a good player).

    I don't like what I'm seeing from Lambert at the moment but all these different tactics in terms of personnel in different positions feels a bit like the analogy of re-arranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship. I guess I'm finding it hard to completely right Lambert off until he has a decent squad of players to pick from, i.e enough fit players who would be considered first choice to have a decent run of games.
     
    #58
  19. YorkieLancsHampyLondoner

    YorkieLancsHampyLondoner Well-Known Member

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    Chambers would be fourth in line for a CB berth if you ask me, but it doesn’t really matter. As long as the centre backs can focus on playing their role and we play strikers as strikers - you mention Sears who is a perfect case in point - then we can get the basics right.

    We’re not short of midfield options so if the rest of the team can at least be functional then the midfield could win us games rather than having to constantly be faced with lost causes in front and behind them.
     
    #59
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  20. itfcptc

    itfcptc Well-Known Member

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    You would then have a big drama of dropping the club captain, unless other players are really in form (which they're not) i don't think many managers would do that with our squad, especially with its inexperience.

    We certainly aren't short of midfield options but that is still an area we lack experience and loads of players who've had long term injuries.

    This is what I would say is Dozzells first season in the the first team. He's very limited first team experience as he's not been on loan anywhere and also had a major injury which meant he hasn't played alot of football. Downes has been injured and seems our most reliable player in the first team but he's still only 22 and this is really only his 2nd season as a cemented first team player with us (and the first wasn't even properly finished). Then we've Bishop who's having his first decent number of appearances in a season for about the first time in 5 years and he's still had an injury.

    Then there's Huws who's 27 and barely made over 100 senior first team appearances and looks a shadow of his former self.

    John Nolan who's had injury problems and been very inconsistent.

    Certainly talent in that midfield but real lack of experience in part due to major injury problems

    Again I don't necessarily disagree with you I guess what I'm trying to say is there are no simple solutions to our problems, which is a depressing thought. If a new manager came in they would be faced with the same problems, unless miraculously our squad was suddenly given a clean bill of health.
     
    #60
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
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