Is the world at a dangerous crossroad?

Build a 10 foot high fence on every Russian western facing border and place troops beyond imagination for defence (no joke intended). Not wanting Ukraine to join the EU must be starting to sound like a nightmare in the Kremlin because all it's borders by land and sea will be crawling with weaponry aimed solely at Putin. All access to Kaliningrad should be shut off from Russia and perhaps ask them if they would like to separate and join the EU to rub salt into the already gaping wound. Perhaps the world has finally woken up to the threats facing us from suspect regimes who have pulled the wool over our eyes for far too long and only now are we witnessing the horror they intend on dishing out to the peoples who are supposedly trying to overthrow them. The evil mind is a thing of terror without a thought to humanity.

 

I see Sweden and Finland are officially requesting NATO membership. Putin has already warned them that they would be attacked if that happens.
Boris yesterday unilaterally signed a military pact with them (Finland and Sweden) - which means that we could be at war with Russia before their NATO membership has been confirmed - making our island EXTREMELY vulnerable. We are playing into Putin's hands - he's already extremely pissed off with us and he's crazy.

I can't see how WW3 can be avoided now - it's a matter of WHEN not IF

 

they are neutral FINLAND SWEDEN and SWITZERLAND

 

no he has not said they will be attacked ..has said there would/could be consequences Finland v Russia ... FINLAND had the edge last time!

 

They are indeed associate members of Nato. That means they can and do regularly officially train with and take part in military manoeuvres with Nato member countries. The lack of full Nato membership means that there is no obligation upon Nato countries to directly assist them if attacked - that's the big difference.

They are not the the only European countries outside Nato. Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland, Malta and Sweden are all EU states that are not members of NATO. Switzerland, which isn’t a member of the EU also remains neutral regarding military conflict. However, all these countries except Cyprus, are members of NATO’s Partnership For Peace (PfP) programme.

 

THEY ARE NOT members of NATO... they participate in the partnership for peace. This is an alignment to be able to assist with peace keeping operations along side NATO countries. It also enables them to have an interlock with procedures and weaponery.. there is a number of countries in the PFP who are not members of the NATO FORCE.

They have formerly got to apply for membership. this is a step up from a neutral country to an aligned military force, and would be expected to contribute funding to NATO FINANCIALLY and militarily they do neither at the present!

 

Finland shares a 1,300-km (810-mile) border with Russia. Until now, it has stayed out of Nato to avoid antagonising its eastern neighbour.

Finland will formally announce its decision on Sunday after it has been considered by parliament and other senior political figures.

 

I never said they were currently members of NATO - read a post properly before you shout off with your capital letters. They are also no longer "neutral" countries like Switzerland. They fully participate in military exercises, manoeuvres and intelligence sharing with full member Nato countries.

Finland and Sweden switched from formal neutrality to military non-alignment in 1995 when they joined the European Union, and both have drawn closer to Nato in recent years, exchanging intelligence gathering and participating in alliance exercises.

At the moment, that is the extent of their Nato involvement and currently in the event of a foreign incursion would not be supported with "men on the ground" by exisiting Nato countries. That is the whole point of them applying to join the organisation.

 

There is very little difference between associate and full membership, almost every club I belong to has a full membershp, some an associate membership [ gives reciprocal rights ] without necessarily paying same fees [ +/- ] your comment "associate member" is no where to be found in the structuree of NATO ... THERE ARE FULL MEMBERS ...!
PARTNERSHIP FOR PEACE has members in Nato and members who are not in Nato, set up as a different approach to peace keeping Finland et al
You can add as many terms such as "formal" to things to try and dress mutton as lamb but does not detract from this moment in time who are neutral. Peace keeping is not war mongering/ or being part of a conflict simply as a force to be employed to keep the peace [ usually as observers ].
As stated Finland joins in with nato exercises as they have a territory that supports one particular aspect of combat. They also have, like Sweden some very sophisticated and reliable weaponery which is a benefit to both parties to use and get first hand info on ... bit like BAE sharing info with different countries to perfect design etc as I well know from my time as a courier for the same ............

 

I give in.

 

Correct

 

They are associate members, are you waffling again ?

 

of course you must, in a few months time you might be correct!

no far from ... you are just trying to prolong a reply thread [ or do not understand the differences ]

Not associate members and not wafling see previous comment. It is all about understanding Member [ full ] associate and PFP.. you can also add in our recent support [ independant of the other Nato PFP signed with Sweden and Finland...
end of

 

I’ve seen some pro-Russian posts on social media - there aren’t many but some are there. They go on about NATO provocation by expanding up to Russia’s borders and ‘hypocrisy’ about Iraq and Syria.
I kind of get the Iraq argument, but parking that for a moment; the BIG difference is that NATO membership is REQUESTED not enforced by invasion. No NATO country has had membership forced upon them and can leave the alliance whenever they want. It’s a voluntary defensive pact.
Russia - in particular Putain - should ask himself WHY all those countries would want to join NATO in the first place.

 

Because of him almost certainly but perhaps we could use the clamour for membership by telling Putin that none of his neighbours will ask to join NATO for a specific period such as 3-5 years. This would remove the threat that he perceives from NATO but to reach that deal he has to remove all Russian troops from the entirety of Ukraine. The various areas that Putin claims need to be de-nazified and that he currently occupies must be free to vote in a referendum as to their futures overseen by a mutually agreed party such as the UN. Playing this tread softly and carry a big stick scenario can only last so long before something goes awry and the messy stuff hits the fan, and we all know what that package may contain. Wake up and smell the roses Vladimir because if you want the legacy of being the man who destroyed the planet you are certainly giving it the old college try. Walk now and hand over to someone who has a brain, although that might be an impossible task even for you.

 

THEY have all joined over a period of years to avoid what has happened to UKRAINE although the original Nato countries, just after the war were to have a defence strong enough to combat a country that was a war monger as opposed to one who that just wanted to get on with life and become prosperous.

the problem with this is he has removed most of the "locals" by killing them/ kidnapping them/ or caused to flee for their lives so any vote would likely be mostly pro Russian or people he has seeded there.

"Wake up and smell the roses Vladimir because if you want the legacy of being the man who destroyed the planet you are certainly giving it the old college try. Walk now and hand over to someone who has a brain, although that might be an impossible task even for you."
Is the impossible task actually finding someone with a brain? before 2014 THE HISTORY BOOKS WERE WRITING the pages of Vladimir Putin as one of the great Russian statesmen, he had brought them well up the ladder with respect and economy... guess he became brain dead with the amount of praise being bestowed on him .... after all he was /is just a basic criminal who almost came good.................

 

I was intrigued with the Boeing p8 poseidon showing up quite a few times.. apparently it it is a heavily armed marine plane mainly Anti submarine but has a wide range of armament .. been a few over eastern EUROPE and in the med.
Turkey is playing a dangerous game, they do not condemn Russia for invading and now rhetoric is to veto Finland and Sweden..... as an original member they need to think hard about human rights and the kurdish people who were against ISIS and having to defend themselves against turkish aggression! whilst doing so!

 

Turkey is an unreliable ally because they will turn on you in an instant and the number of Turkish Airlines flights to and from Russia just shows their divided self centred interests. If it should ever come down to the crunch they will disappear like a rat up a drainpipe and pretend they didn't hear the cries and roars. There are no human rights anywhere near Turkey and the involvement in the Kashoggi murder was a true sign of their complicity with scoundrels and killers like the Saudis.

 

russian soldier pleads guilty, was told by higher rank to shoot him ... so I must suppose tere will other names of russians involved!
At 21 most in russian army are conscripts. IN THE 80's had a number of A RADIO "friends in Russia who would do their 1 YEAR NATIONAL SERVICE as late as possible [ think have to report before 23rd24th birthday?

 

Why were they allowed to join NATO , any idea ?