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Off Topic Joshua vs Usyk

Discussion in 'Hull City' started by TheCasual, Sep 24, 2021.

  1. Kevin Francis

    Kevin Francis Well-Known Member

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    That's a fight lovers dream. A super series like they did at middleweight (or super middleweight I can't remember) for the Ali trophy a few years back would have been amazing for the fans and for the sport would have been amazing at heavyweight. But in the modern era there's no way promoters would risk their fighters against their best contemporaries for such high risk low reward. It's just the state boxing is in at the moment and I don't see that changing. As much as I have little time for Dana white and the way he treats his fighters at least the ufc is free from all the bullshit red tape that surrounds boxing in regards to the different organisations. One belt for each weight. I like a bit of ufc when it's on but it will never replace boxing, but in regards to the set up there's a reason theyre stealing the casual fans and the new fans
     
    #121
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  2. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    After Ali, Fury is very possibly the most skilled heavyweight there's ever been. I'm not talking power, obviously. He has the body of a super heavyweight but the movement of a featherweight. He's unbelievably talented. Fury has won 21 out of 30 fights by KO/TKO, btw.
     
    #122
  3. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    Wilder cleans AJ out, btw. With ease.
     
    #123
  4. DMD

    DMD Eh?
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    Wilder v AJ.

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    #124
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  5. Kevin Francis

    Kevin Francis Well-Known Member

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    This is the Fury who was clearly beaten by McDermott, and the Fury who you called the most skilled heavyweight after Ali who managed to uppercut himself, and the Fury who was dropped by cruiserweight Steve Cunningham. I hate using the term but I suspect you don't watch boxing regularly and are a bit of a casual if that's what you genuinely think. He's had a horrible win against klit which was painful to watch. A decent draw against wilder which I believe he won to be fair. And one good performance against wilder which wasn't exactly the second coming of Ali. Every single other fight has been against young up and comers, journeymen, and doormen. It's fair enough to rate him better than AJ or wilder or anyone else that's active at heavyweight but to suggest he's second only to Ali in skill is possibly one of the strangest boxing opinions I've ever heard.
     
    #125
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  6. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    Aren't you the guy that said something along the lines of only great boxers can win Olympic golds until I corrected you and reminded you about Audley Harrison?

    Casual fan, indeed <laugh>
     
    #126
  7. Kevin Francis

    Kevin Francis Well-Known Member

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    Harrison was a great amateur, you have to be to win gold. Smaller gloves and no headguards exposed his complete lack of heart.
     
    #127
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  8. THE EXCLUSIVE 10%

    THE EXCLUSIVE 10% Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Although it does take a lot of heart to climb into the ring and should never be under estimated, Harrison by the end of his career, compared to his opponents, lost his and was a serious risk to himself. Still had a great few years.
     
    #128
  9. Kevin Francis

    Kevin Francis Well-Known Member

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    100% agree. It takes a special type of mental steel to get in a ring. Fighters are a different breed. But yeah Harrison compleley lost his bottle and was sadly only in it for the money pretty soon after he turned pro.
     
    #129
  10. Gone For A Walk

    Gone For A Walk Well-Known Member

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    Seems a bit odd to me saying things like 'complete lack of heart', 'lost his bottle', etc about anyone who gets into a ring to fight!
     
    #130

  11. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
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    Harrison v Haye was about the most pathetic fight I've ever seen, Harrison didn't lay a glove on Haye for the entirety of the three rounds he lasted.
     
    #131
  12. Chazz Rheinhold

    Chazz Rheinhold Well-Known Member

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    He’s a fascinating bloke I hope he does him again


    Oleksandr Usyk: ‘In the first month of war I lost 10lb, but now feel incredibly strong’ | Boxing | The Guardian
    “It was the day she turned 12 and so of course she cried a bit,” Oleksandr Usyk says quietly as he remembers how his daughter Yelizaveta’s birthday was overshadowed earlier this year, on 24 February, the day that Russia invaded Ukraine. The world heavyweight champion runs his hand through his damp hair, which is cut in the style of a Cossack warrior, and for a moment it feels as if he is back home on that terrible winter morning when the first bombs rained down.

    “My wife spoke to her, explaining what had happened, and soon my daughter understood very well what we are all facing in Ukraine,” Usyk says. “It was difficult but she got it and the main thing is that she is safe now. She will be OK.”


    On a ferociously hot Saturday evening for him in Dubai, almost six months since that abandoned birthday party, the ominous shadow of war still hangs over Usyk as he prepares to defend his IBF, WBA and WBO titles against Anthony Joshua. This coming Saturday night in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, Usyk and Joshua will step into the ring for their fascinating rematch.

    Usyk stripped Joshua of all his belts with an imperious performance in London last September. But all the typical hoopla of a world heavyweight title fight, at least for the new champion, gives way to more humane concerns. He is not interested in making any predictions of what may unfold between the ropes – or whether Joshua, who is now being guided by Robert Garcia, the outstanding Mexican-American trainer, will tear up his mistaken strategy from the first fight.

    All the indications are that Joshua will opt for a much more aggressive approach and look to use his considerable physical advantages to try to hurt and even knock out Usyk. The Ukrainian is the superior and more natural boxer, with a skill-set Joshua can never hope to match, and Garcia has spoken openly of the need to bully and attack Usyk.

    In response to the looming threat Usyk has spent his long and arduous training camp bulking up his physique. He was majestic in becoming the undisputed world cruiserweight champion before, in 2019, he moved up to heavyweight where most of boxing’s vast riches are on offer.

    He beat Joshua in only his third heavyweight contest but he has apparently since packed on 15 kilos of muscle in preparation for Joshua’s renewed threat.

    “In the first month of the war I lost 10 pounds,” Usyk says as he remembers how, like so many Ukrainians, he shed weight amid the stress and worry. “But when I started preparing for this fight I quickly gained the weight and my team put in all this incredible work to strengthen my body. I don’t want to say a lot about the weight but the main thing is I feel incredibly fit and strong. You can see it in the gym but I am really going to prove this in the ring.”

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    Oleksander Usyk and Anthony Joshua pose together after their press conference at the Four Seasons Hotel, Park Lane, London in June of this year.Photograph: Mark Robinson/Matchroom Boxing
    His team have posted videos on social media of Usyk looking formidable as he rips into the heavy bag, and there are stories of how sparring partners have been forced to leave camp because of the punishment they have absorbed. I am more interested in whether, despite now resembling a fully fledged heavyweight, Usyk will retain his usual speed and dexterity. He grins. “That’s not going to be a problem at all.”

    Usyk told me a few months ago in London that Joshua did not hurt him in their first bout, even though he admitted it had been a hard fight. He was in the UK for a media conference to publicise the rematch but, after his promotional duties, Usyk sat down with a few of us. It was striking how open he was about the impact of the war on him as he reflected on the month he spent as a Ukrainian soldier.

    “Every day I was there, I was praying and asking: ‘Please, God, don’t let anybody try to kill me. Please don’t let anybody shoot me. And please don’t make me shoot any other person.’”

    Even more movingly, Usyk said: “My children are asking: ‘Father, why do they want to kill us?’” The world heavyweight champion looked briefly helpless when, after a long pause, he said: “I don’t know what to tell them.”

    I return to that moment now and ask Usyk if, as the war grinds on with no end in sight, his three children still voice that very human question. “They do,” he says, “but I have the answer now. I explain to my kids that the Russians are trying to kill us because they are weak people. I also tell them this is the same reason why they are not going to win the war. We are stronger than them.”

    He is still their father and so they must feel some fear and concern as he faces Joshua again. Will they watch the fight? “I really trust my kids and it is up to them if they see the fight. And even if I tell them they can’t watch they will probably do it anyway. I don’t want them to have to lie and say they didn’t watch. I want to keep that trusting relationship and be honest with them. I trust them to know what is best for them and whether or not they watch me fight.”

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    Oleksandr Usyk was imperious in the first fight against Anthony Joshua at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in September last year. Photograph: Andrew Couldridge/Action Images/Reuters
    Usyk has ensured that all Ukrainians will be able to watch him against Joshua. He was willing to cover any financial costs to remove the pay-per-view restrictions in Ukraine but an agreement was soon reached to make the fight available for free in his own country. “It’s great and it will show the connection between me and Ukraine. The fact that everyone at home can watch will inspire me.”

    It is easy to imagine that Volodymyr Zelenskiy will be among those millions of viewers, given that Usyk is one of the most famous and revered people in Ukraine. Has Usyk spoken recently to Zelenskiy? “Our president has a lot of work right now so he’s really busy with all the country’s issues. But I will speak to him later and it will be an honour.”

    Usyk has set up a foundation in response to the war and he talks passionately about his work with the UK-based sports NFT platform Blockasset. They have just launched an exclusive digital artwork collection of 2,000 items in a bid to raise $2m for the Usyk Foundation which will support humanitarian aid for Ukrainians in need of medical care, shelter and food. “It’s a great initiative,” Usyk says, “and the collection captures big moments in my career, like beating Anthony Joshua in London. They are totally unique assets to raise money for Ukraine.”

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    Does Usyk worry that the world is beginning to forget about the war? “I think some people are not doing enough to help Ukraine. Lots of people are trying to hide and just wait until the war ends and hope that it will not touch them. But it’s not possible because it will touch everybody somehow. All of us should pay attention to what is happening and do something.”

    What has been the lowest moment for him since the war began? “The whole time has been really tough. I don’t want anyone to pity me but the toughest time was at the beginning of the war because I wasn’t with my family. Not being with my wife and children is the toughest for me. But I got through this because I prayed to God and I felt confident again.”

    His family home in Vorzel was broken into by Russian soldiers who used it as a base for a short time. Usyk stresses: “I have people rebuilding it, so everything is going to be OK.”

    Such strife makes routine boxing queries seem redundant even though another victory for Usyk would carry profound resonance for Ukraine. But will Joshua be desperate to win because a second successive defeat would be a shattering outcome for him? “I am just going to box like it’s a normal fight, so I don’t know about Joshua. But I won’t be just as good as any other time I have fought. I will be better.”

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    Oleksandr Usyk flies the flag of Ukraine as he celebrates after his unanimous decision victory over Anthony Joshua. Photograph: Frank Augstein/AP
    In the first fight there were times when it looked as if Usyk had the ability even to stop Joshua. Could he actually win by knockout this weekend? “I am not going to make any predictions but right now I need my dinner. I am really hungry. My time is up.”

    He says this politely but with the kind of conviction he carries in the ring. Our video call is about to end before I have had time to ask Usyk about any misgivings he might harbour about fighting in Saudi Arabia – where the treatment of so many ordinary people is as cruel as it is deadly. No amount of sportswashing can obscure the executions and imprisonments that occur under a brutal regime. It is a question Usyk has not answered before but there is no shifting him now. The interview is over and he wants a break on the very last night of his training camp.

    It is hard to resent Usyk, an intelligent and friendly man who explained to us earlier this year how war had changed him. “Sometimes I just force myself to bring a smile,” he said in London. “Sometimes I just force myself to sing. I don’t even know how to explain it.”

    The gravity of Russia’s invasion has marked him and it clouds the logic which suggests that Usyk should be too good yet again for Joshua. The war means that this is no ordinary world heavyweight title fight. Usyk might even be more driven in the ring, fuelled by his desire to win for Ukraine, or perhaps the toll of the conflict will diminish him.

    His team are in no doubt that his resolve and fortitude are stronger than ever. Hearing again about the heatwave in Europe, Sergey Lapin, a key member of his camp, smiles: “It was 49 degrees in Dubai today but you look at Oleksandr and you would not even know it. He’s a warrior.”

    The Ukrainian warrior is about to head off for his last supper in Dubai, before flying to Saudi in the morning, but he calls out his thanks for the interview and says: “With God’s help, after this fight, I will get back to my motherland, to Ukraine.”

    Usyk raises his hand and in that sombre moment he looks determined to return home with his family and his status as world heavyweight champion intact.
     
    #132
  13. Nikica Jellyfish

    Nikica Jellyfish Well-Known Member

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    Always a punchers chance but this time AJ is stopped mid to late.
     
    #133
  14. Amin Yapusi

    Amin Yapusi Well-Known Member

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    I just can’t see Joshua losing again. Usyk has the class but he’s a cruiserweight really despite bulking up. It was a shock result last time and if he won again I’d still consider it to be a shock.
     
    #134
  15. Nikica Jellyfish

    Nikica Jellyfish Well-Known Member

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    For those who have followed Usyk it was expected. He cannot keep up with that level of pace and unpredictably.
     
    #135
  16. Howdentiger2

    Howdentiger2 Well-Known Member

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    AJ win for me. Then fury will come out retirement for the 100th time and fight for "free" as long as he's paid £500m
     
    #136
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  17. Kalman

    Kalman Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know why people put so much faith in Joshua. He’s Frank Bruno MkII. Whenever he’s faced a truly quality opponent, they’ve either put him on his arse or outboxed him. I don’t think he has a strong enough chin or the skills to be the greatest of his generation of heavyweights. He can punch hard but Wilder is proof that punching hard isn’t enough (though AJ is a much better boxer than Wilder imo).
     
    #137
  18. dennisboothstash

    dennisboothstash Well-Known Member

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    Nice touch with removing pay per view in Ukraine
    Difficult for any neutrals to be disappointed if Usyk wins again. I think he will, but regardless of all the talk the war and the impact on his family must affect him. Whether that’s for good or bad in the ring TWT
     
    #138
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  19. GLP

    GLP Well-Known Member

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    Yes, not sure which way this goes. AJ was pretty poor in the first bout, I can’t see him being that poor again. It could go either way, it should be an entertaining watch anyway.
     
    #139
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  20. Wildie

    Wildie Well-Known Member

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    I think AJ wins this time around. His trainer is a shrewd choice, and I think he is going to go and fight aggressively. It will only take AJ to land a couple early doors, and Usyk won't be able to move around as he normally does. Plus, if true that Usyk has bulked up a lot, that could reduce his movement anyway.
     
    #140

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