Off Topic UK politics and brexit ramblings

May survived with 200 to 117 win

 

117 is a lot of disloyal ****s.

there is absolutely zero and i mean zero hope of this lot getting any deal through parliament.

the Tory boys have now had their wobble. their chance is gone.

it's now may or no deal for them... as the only other option is corbyn.

I can only presume now that it's now over to Labour to try for general election.

there's a date in January that is a deadline then if it's a no vote then there's 21 days to make a statement of intent.

there's no time for renegotiation.

it's may deal
extend
withdraw
no deal and exit.

 

The loser is Boris Johnson Theresa May is the winner. Good luck Theresa May.

 

I can see May coming back with some time limit on the backstop. Like 2-3 years.

As both sides UK and EU said they didn’t want a backstop (for different reasons) then there should be no difficulty in agreeing that if and when it is used they should all be working hard to remove it. A time limit will focus minds and not hold the UK to ransom. But would the likes of Spain and France play ball when they have Britain by the balls?

 

i have lost interest in politics because they are ALL mainly in it for themselves, but how do France and Spain have Britain by the balls?

France, surely they want to get rid of all the imigrants desperate to get here (not for our free benefits obviously lol!!!) we leave surely we get control back of our borders? bit of a farce we have no say in that anyway to be honest!!!!

 

The thing is France barely have any of the syrian refugees. They are in the majority in germany.

The reason why france and spain have US by the stones is the UK put its balls right in their hands and said squeeze me boys.

The thing for me is not an economic decision as very few would make this brexit call on economics.

it is a political/governance call.

My view on brexit is this: millions of workers in the non service industry have been sold a pup by a very small cohort who are going to make a killing of financial services of a particular kind. aka the low tax dodge economy or whatever.

Brexit won't yield any benefit to the vast majority of the UK population and will cost quite a bit TBH... but some will become very wealthy.

However if you didn't like EU and undemocratic entities but prefer the house of commons as viewed in all its glory in the past two weeks well... Then this is a good thing and thats your right.

 

TBH I can't see it being that short.

I can see this being a zombie state for 5 years with some review mechanism.

You are in whatever its called.. limbo or purgatory.... where we get to pay in but have no say etc. and then theres a review. Do you want o go no deal no? no? ok stay in limbo a while more. Eventually UK government agrees to norway or canagda of whatever the **** and the back stop ends.

The back stop is no more than saying there will eb a limbo state from the date we leave until the final trade agreement is signed.

Noting it took canada 10 years.

BTW.. LEGALLY the back stop can end on april 1st. All thats needed is to say right now we are out, we don't like it so tough hard brexit WTO tariffs on trade and no back stop.

You'd swear this was hard.

Option A

Leave with no deal

Option B

Leave with back stop and work for final deal. Back stop protects EU from UK gouging and ebing in the tree trade zone without the 4 freedoms cos others pay for that priviledge.


its a fantasy to think option C,D, Z exist.

The EU is saying don't let the door hit you on the way out... its just how hard we think we can slam the door now. too hard and we will catch our fingers

 

Brexit: EU says no to May on renegotiating deal


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46560807

 

The backstop refers solely to NI not the UK and is down to the fact there is a land border. This will lead to a divergence in regulations between NI and GB that is the the problem* for many people.

*for some it is clearly a vehicle to scupper the deal.

 

If there happened to be an election... and the DUP were no longer a factor... OR Labour just agreed to vote the damn thing through and be done with it this would be no issue.

Its very clear that holding open a phyisical border in NI is proving impossible as the DUP have dug in.

However from my point of view they are no irrelevant as the tory party itself is so divided you can't even get the votes that they matter.

dunno how they resolve this.

Can there be an election before Jan 21st? no... probably not.
Can there be a vote o nthe deal.. not unless they want it voted no.

So what does that leave?

By law its either extend deadline for brexit and have election... or no deal... or just agree the deal negotiated and hope to negoitatie trade deal

 

The truth is out:

There is no Brexit option (wood, semi, drooping) than is economically better than a remain/ no Brexit option. At least in the short to medium term. Meaning that jobs and family finances would be at risk.

I wish the Brexiteers had the guts to admit the choice is between ideological purity/sovereignty and economic well being.

The government are forcing us down options which are all detrimental to our prosperity.

Did 17 million plus decide with their eyes open about the consequences? I doubt it.

 

Nope the DUP want an open border what they will not accept is a different regulatory including customs union to the rest of the UK which is what the backstop entails. It isn't just the DUP though as quite a few Tories and probably some Labour won't either as they think it undermines the Union.

I assume the DUP is also worried that the backstop could lead to increased pressure for the island of Ireland to become a sole political entity.

 

Disagree imo the referendum vote did that .

 

Ireland / Northern Ireland / Ulster is such a long standing historical divide in the country, it's England/Britain's fault ultimately ever since we colonised it with the Plantation, before that even. I don't think most English, outside of politics, would care or have many reservations nowadays if Ireland became one country, politically or geographically, it's the Irish themselves (Unionist Protestants mostly) who would feel conflicted and uneasy since there are many who strongly feel very British in the North and tied to the UK. It would make Brexit easier if the country unified since the border issue goes away, but it would be a really tough sell to the hardcore in the North

 

I don't get how they can want an open border without realising that means total UK alignment with eu regulations.

the mainland or should I say some tories want no alignment at all so its a circlr that csnnot be squared.

 

why didn't it.

those of us looking knew that this was a bad economic idea

people were offered a choice to remain or leave. all leave options were poor choices economically compared to 2016.

the reality of what was negotiated with eu should give people pause.

there's 60mil people in UK and 6 times as many in eu. there's 50 times or more Chinese and then you talk India etc. the thought that 60mil of first world trading power can make more money that a bloc 7 times the size is amazing to me.

the only way if for people to accept far less quality

 

you need to read up about this tbh
basically the backstop kicks in if we haven't agreed a trade deal , which would negate the need for border checks , with the EU by the end of agreed timetable which imo is inevitable.The open border is part of the Good Friday Agreement , which i seem to remember the EU countersigned as a partner of "both" sides , which all mainstream NI political entities & the main paramilitaries agreed to.
Even now some checks are carried out if for no other reason than different tax rates in the province & the ROI plus currency variations but not at the border.

 

not sure what your point is in reference to mine tbh.

 

Still reckon May should have had a conference call with the Taoiseach and Arlene Foster & gone
May "Arlene you can stick the supply & confidence deal where the sun don't shine"
Foster "what !!!"
May "Leo i have have found the solution to the backstop"
Leo "great what is it"
May "Tag their yours"
May slams phone down as does a little jig.

 

You said you disagree that the referendum has forced us down options that are detrimental to our prosperity.

I would contend that in fact it does as my opinion is that any leave is going to be detrimental and have believed so from outset. The "evidence" from bank of england is stuffed full of assumptions but shows a case that it is the impact.