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Match Day Thread Leeds Utd v West Ham

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    What are you saying? No one can offer their opinion on a player?
     
    #201
  2. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo is Shit

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    World class? :emoticon-0102-bigsm

    It was pretty straight forward although it still had to be made. The interception which got possession for him was more impressive imo. He is very good at that is Coops. Unfortunately he went for a couple during the game which he missed by a big margin and left Meslier exposed. I thought he was immense vs Everton in the last 15 minutes.

    He has been very similar to others this year by which I mean he has been very hit and miss. Everyone needs to be more consistent.
     
    #202
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  3. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    I said nothing of the sort. You know fine well what I was saying, so don't start with that pish. :emoticon-0121-angry

    Tell me how many people commented on Coopers' worldie? I'll save you the trouble - not one. Now ask yourself if it would have been ignored if the pass was placed by Phillips. And we both know the answer, don't we? Praise heaped upon praise every time he does it. And rightly so.

    But the 'Fcuk Cooper Clan'? Nope. Conveniently blind. Already ignored the pass for posterity. Let's meld any mistake in with every other mistake he's every made - even things like forgetting to empty the bins - and come up with a pariah to focus all their hate on. For years.

    How many managers have made him captain? How many players have come out & said how he's a brilliant captain on & off the field? How many times has he been picked for the team when other CBs are available? You don't need me to embarrass you with the answers.

    He's the captain of out fcuking club, and rightly so. Yup, he's not world class - just like the rest of our team, but why should he be the focus for hate?
     
    #203
  4. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    Agree with your last comment. A fair assessment. And thankfully, no hate.

    I actually thought that the 2 lunges you speak of were actually successful, but perhaps not in the way intended. I recall one which forced their player to run on to the bye-line. Hardly putting Meslier under pressure, was it?

    But let's roll it back a bit further. Ask yourself why Cooper is exposed in this manner, and there are two critical answers to this. The first is that Bielsaball puts the defence more at risk than any other system, and this is considered an acceptable risk by Bielsa. And us too, if we're honest. The second is that even though we're supposed to defend as a team, half the team forgot that last night. Play back their (i.e. WHU) attacks & watch an embarrassing number of our players treating the urgency of the situation with an amble. That for me is far more important than an individual having a stinker, & sadly has been a feature of a number of games this season. Bielsa must have been apoplectic after a number of games this season for this reason alone.
     
    #204
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  5. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    Agree with you re Cooper. I actually don't think he's done much wrong all season.

    Maybe the worrying lack of urgency and ambling back in recent games stems from seeing the likes of Rodrigo not giving 100%, and the players who have always busted a gut for the team think "well maybe I can just give the same amount of effort as him". One bad apple and the rest soon become contaminated.

    Bielsa's teams have never been about individuals. Maybe he needs to make some tough decisions and go back to basics for the good of the team, otherwise one defective cog and the engine will seize.
     
    #205
  6. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    You're right on the money! <applause>
     
    #206
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  7. OLOF

    OLOF Well-Known Member

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    He is the captain Forza, maybe he should kick some ass if some of his team mates aren't giving 100%
     
    #207
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  8. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo is Shit

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    I agree that it must be disheartening as a centre back with Bielsaball. It must feel like the Alamo at times. They will often be exposed.

    The main problem with Cooper going to ground is that it puts you out of the game. If you stay on your feet you can retain some mobility and recover some kind of position. Even the one that was out wide means that another player had to leave his position to cover the player whilst Cooper was still sliding around on his arse. If you dive in and don't get the ball you leave a huge gap. If he gets his toe on both of those he probably walks off with a good shout at MOM. In the PL millimeters count.

    My honest assessment of Cooper is that we need him to marshall the defence as he is a leader of our team. He is vocal and an organiser which is very important in a back four. The problem with Cooper is that he might have reached his limit ability wise. He has noticeably struggled in a few games to stick with the pace of the game. The good news is that he has had a few stints where he looks like he is adjusting to this level. He just needs to stand firm and cut out the odd bad decision.

    Genuinely hope he can keep getting used to the pace at this level as we need him to be our Tony Adams back there shouting and organising those around him. Those players are hard to find.
     
    #208
  9. Normanbitmyleg70

    Normanbitmyleg70 Well-Known Member

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    All I can add is disappointed to lose again. We have had enough of the games we have played to date to get a few more points than we have. Knew this season would be about survival and we need to pick up some points over Christmas to avoid being in the real doo dah below us and before those above start creating a gap.
     
    #209
  10. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    I think Cooper us one of those players who plays well for most of a game and then has a lapse of concentration, or a rush of blood./panic. He was more prone to this in his early days with us, but they became fewer. People certainly seemed to pick up on cooper’s errors and overlook Jansson’s who made at least as many in bielsa’s first year. Cooper made the pfa championship team of the season last year so his fellow professionals respected him at that level.

    I think at this level mistakes get shown up and punished more. He looked nervous (maybe not match sharp) and hurried in his first few Prem games. Seems to have calmed down. Thought he looked assured on Friday for large parts of the game, but his errors when they came were clear and costly.

    Koch has made plenty of mistakes but still has ‘new signing honeymoon status’

    I’ve said it countless times and it’s been mentioned above... it’s not easy being a centre half in this side. You’re expected to intercept and need to read the game well, but if that isn’t possible you’re then exposed against quick skilful players with space to play in.

    that’s a cost of how we play - we commit numbers forward and are exposed at the back. I’m less bothered about that than I am about our pathetic disorganisation at set pieces, which is in my opinion unacceptable
     
    #210
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  11. Infidel

    Infidel Well-Known Member

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    I commented WJ on Coopers last few performances, especially the last two.
    How many decisive clearance headers has he done on set pieces.... I’ll tell you, none.
    What is the golden rule as the last defender.......stay on your feet, what did Capt fantastic do, lunged in and his timing was woeful.
    How many times do you see him clapping his hand rallying the troops, i for one have never seen him and sometimes players need to be lifted especially a multi race group of players.
    I have also pointed relevant points on other players, Harrison and his poor performances since Liverpool.
    Dallas and Alioski over the LB role and Dallas non effective in MF.
    I see a captain as a leader, set an example, lift players when thing are not going to plan, has Mr. Cooper got or apply any of these traits ..... sorry but no. The post looked like it was to defend a fellow countryman WJ !!! but the forum is for views, comments, criticism and banter when appropriate.
     
    #211
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  12. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    I agree WJ, Cooper seems to be made the scapegoat whenever we lose.<ok>
     
    #212
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  13. Gessa

    Gessa Well-Known Member

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    We're giving possession away far too easily all over the pitch, giving away needless free kicks. We need to change things and Bielsa has to make the decision a few favourites need benching.

    To tighten things up defensively and not lose too much of an attacking threat, about this.

    ..............Meslier

    Ayling......Struijk.....Cooper........Davis

    ................Phillips............Klich

    Shackleton.........Raphina............Dallas

    .......................Bamford........


    Shackleton and Dallas will be much better cover than Harrison, Costa or Poveda, and on present form, won't be any less effective going forward, Davis is really the only natural LB we have and won't let us down, Raphina is good with both feet, so suits the 10 role for me. Rodrigo is yet to convince, and he hasn't shown anything to say he'll score more than Paddy. Struijk will give us much needed height at the back.
     
    #213
  14. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    I can accept the odd slip or mistake from a CB but what I want to see is a CB or preferably a pair of CBs commanding the area at set pieces. I want to see them heading the ball clear when it is floated in from a corner. Cooper doesn’t do this, he also has at least 2-3 mistakes in him a game, some get punished others he doesn’t.

    I agree with Emu, I think Cooper has reached his limit, he’ll never get a MOM award, he might score 6s or 7s. I believe we need to keep him for this season but if we’re still in the PL next season I hope we bring in or develop someone else to jump ahead of him in the pecking order.

    It is all opinion but I think there is too much sentiment with a lot of the players. Cooper is a nice bloke, Alioski gives it 100% effort, I don’t care, neither are good enough for a top half PL team but as this season is about surviving for me I’m able to wait another season.
     
    #214
  15. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    Can you actually find a post of mine digging Cooper out? I’ve often stated that these players will always hold legendary status for me after getting us out after 16 years in the championship. People are just debating whether he is good enough quality for the premier league, if we stay up the question is answered, but that’s what I come onto the forum to do, read other people’s opinions. There’s no denying we have a problem defending set pieces, perhaps we need to make sure we stop the stupid fouls that let the opposition hit the ball into the box.
     
    #215
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  16. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    You can add harrison to that list too.
     
    #216
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  17. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    Harrison is one of those annoying players where he looks quality for one or two games then he lives on that reputation for the next 4-5 matches. I’ve been slightly on the fence about him and then against Liverpool I thought wow.

    Since then I’ve not been impressed, if Bielsa leaves at the end of the season I can’t see a new coach taking up the option to buy. Next game I’d start Poveda and Raphinha out in the wide positions.

    This season we need to avoid relegation, then we need to look at who stepped up and who needs replacing. I’m hoping Llorente and Koch come good for us, I’m hoping we’ve not picked up two injury prone CBs
     
    #217
  18. w.c.dukenfield

    w.c.dukenfield Well-Known Member

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    I would not seek to blame any individual defender,but when we get possession the whole team goes into attack mode, and too many times recently we have been caught in possession which has resulted in an attack with players caught out of position.
     
    #218
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  19. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    I believe that we're obliged to buy Harrison at the end of the loan this time.
     
    #219
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  20. Botev Bielsa

    Botev Bielsa Member

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    I think you're right WJ and that the cost is 12 million.
    Along with the Costa deal for 16 million, I don't think Orta has done great business there.
    Both inconsistent players imo.
     
    #220

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