1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Match Day Thread Liverpool vs Arsenal - Matchday Thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by BrunelGooner, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Messages:
    5,909
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    Hmm, I'd call that more patching up the titanic's hole with some scotch tape. Or maybe patching up United's defence with Lindelof.

    We need to do about the only thing that will work which is what you did. Spend an absolute fortune on lots of players to become competitive.
     
    #21
  2. Mantis

    Mantis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    7,154
    Likes Received:
    1,137
    I won't pretend that there haven't been positives from this season thus far. However I think we were about where we belong in the table. 5th with a chance of getting into 4th if one of the teams above us stumbles. I think this result was always on the cards with the way Liverpool have been playing, our lack of defensive organization and injuries to key players.
     
    #22
    BobbyD and winifred122 like this.
  3. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    115,804
    Likes Received:
    64,353
    ****ing horror show this result. Not unsurprising, I thought we were going to get gubbed before the game. But it badly exposed all of our current weaknesses.

    We all knew that Emery had a job on his hands when he took over, and maybe we got a bit carried away by that 23 game unbeaten run, but this last couple of weeks has been a reality check as to just how much work is still needed at Arsenal.
     
    #23
  4. Mantis

    Mantis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    7,154
    Likes Received:
    1,137
    4 points from 12 over the festive period with Fulham to come on New years day. Hopefully we can bounce back.
     
    #24
  5. Quilllogic

    Quilllogic Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    142
    I think we all knew what the outcome would be today, but the hope was there that Liverpool would have an off day and we would play a blinder. Sadly with their strike force and our 'past it' defenders (Kos, Mustafi and Lichsteiner) it was never going to be..
     
    #25
  6. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2011
    Messages:
    12,779
    Likes Received:
    4,686
    So sad for you guys that your team was so abysmal today. I thought Emery would have produced the game that he had with Sevilla. There were elements of it in the first half with Maitland-Niles going wide down the right, and was it Kolasinic/Iwobi down the left. This is what Emery employed with Sevilla to beat Liverpool in the EL three years ago.
     
    #26
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  7. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    11,466
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    To be fair we were defensively better before the injuries to Holding and Bellerin.

    But a truely World Class CB would have a HUGE impact on this side. (Just look at Liverpool and Van Dijk.)
     
    #27
  8. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    9,338
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    I think it was only a matter of time and Emery probably thought the same. Liverpool are flying at the moment and we're going through a transition period, so this result was no surprise. Klopp had a few years before making Liverpool look like serious title contenders. Emery will need around the same to make us into a real force again. A couple of transfer windows should help stengthen our defence and move on dead wood. We had a good run now we need to work on another one...
     
    #28
  9. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    Had to watch that game with a Chelsea fan, Man Utd fan and Leeds fan. Wasn't pleasant at all, as you can imagine.

    The saddest part is when we went 1-0 up, though I was pleasantly surprised, I knew we weren't going to maintain the lead. And within 4 minutes, we're 2-1 down. Then our defenders just went to **** and seemed to lose all discipline and composure. So predictable.

    Weirdly, I thought Iwobi and Maitland-Niles, two of our much maligned younger players this season, actually performed very well. Everyone else - Torreira included - were just absolutely horrendous.

    The frustrating thing about it is that Liverpool didn't even have to work that hard to score their goals.

    To go 1-0 up and lose 5-1 in that fashion is an utter abomination.

    We can blame injuries all day long. But these are seasoned professionals who are defending like the ball is a hot potato.

    I genuinely cannot remember a worse Arsenal team defensively than the current side.

    Don't forget that we were really, really bad last season. And somehow, we've managed to outdo ourselves and be even worse at the back.

    At the end of the day, we cannot keep relying on Aubameyang or Lacazette to score 2/3 goals every game. The defence need to do their part. They haven't been.

    Emery's only 6 months into this project. But he needs investment badly. The club need to give him some financial backing otherwise what was looking like a promising season at the start of the month could end up unravelling into an absolute disaster.
     
    #29
  10. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2011
    Messages:
    12,779
    Likes Received:
    4,686
    Agree with what you said, but I feel Arsenal played too open a game, and as they did not have the pace around the piitch, came unstuck in a very sad way.
     
    #30

  11. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    115,804
    Likes Received:
    64,353
    Agree with this, but I also feel hat emery has to take some responsibility for this defeat too. Playing a high line against Liverpool, really ? And insisting on playing out from the back every time ?

    The best way to have got a result from this game was to set up to frustrate Liverpool. Play a back 4 and pack the midfield, leave Aubameyang up top and play on the counter. Instead we left ourselves horribly exposed and they punished us every time.

    I know we had personnel out, but it was a weak weak effort all round.
     
    #31
  12. Mantis

    Mantis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    7,154
    Likes Received:
    1,137
    In many ways that was similar to what we have experienced with Wenger over the years. If not worse. A manager bent on playing a specific way and being unwilling to alter it, lack of defensive organization (any) and a spiralling lack of confidence combined with an abundance of injuries. It's one result, but I think this game, more than any other, is indicative of where we are as a side.
     
    #32
  13. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    I agree that the way we folded was horrible and reminiscent of the latter Wenger years.

    But I'm going to defend Emery a little bit on this because this was always going to be a difficult game to set up for.

    The problem is I don't think Emery trusts this defence to play deep, absorb the pressure and then hit them on the break. To be honest, I wasn't confident of us doing that either.

    It's a catch 22. Do you set up to pack the midfield and play a counter attacking game, but invite untold amounts of pressure with an ageing back 4 who are up against a dynamic and fluid trio? Or do you try and exploit their vulnerabilities on the flanks as Robertson and Alexander-Arnold leave gaps open when they go forward, so you try and target them?

    The truth is, he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Either way, deep down, all of us knew we had next to no chance of winning this game.

    We had an excellent start and, even when Liverpool went 2-1 up, they were giving the ball away a lot in the final third. We created some chances, but we didn't take advantage of them.

    That's why I say going forward, we weren't doing too badly at all.

    But we can't defend for ****. It was not a good time for Torreira and Xhaka to put in their worst performances of the season.

    Emery isn't faultless in this as he hasn't shored up the defence at all and we look like conceding every time a team attacks us. He's not done much to change this. But he hasn't got the players he wants either fit or the players to follow his instructions. Which is why we need investment.

    I still maintain that the players need to take responsibility for the way they reacted to going 1-0 up.

    Seasoned professionals are getting basic defending wrong. They have no concept of game management. The manager can only do so much for these players. The players have to prove their worth on the pitch. Yet many of them haven't.

    Burnley, Fulham and Brighton put in better defensive performances than we did against Liverpool. And they are meant to be relegation candidates.
     
    #33
  14. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    11,466
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    We are playing a back three because the manager feels we need an extraman in there just to help tighten things up - just what Wenger did last Season. It didnt work then and it doesn't work now.

    The issue with that is we play one less attacker - and offensive play is what this side is best at. By playing a makeshift back three we are restricting our own ability to hurt the opposition.

    I'm very confident Emery wont keep playing this way when he has the defensive players he needs.
     
    #34
  15. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    The issue isn't just playing with one less attacker. Though I do think starting Lacazette would have helped us more offensively yesterday especially as Aubameyang was hardly in the game.

    The issues are we have an ageing squad on high wages who will be difficult to shift. The issues are we have no creativity in our team. The issues are our wide players haven't offered enough this season.

    I've just checked the Arsenal Supporters' Trust's twitter and they've said, based on the club's finances and the wage bill we have, we won't be able to invest a lot in January.

    Mkhitaryan and Ozil's wages combined are apparently £550k p/w. That's £28.6m yearly on two ageing, injury prone players who have no future at the club.

    It's just an absolute shambles off the pitch as well as on the pitch.

    Whether we want to admit this or not, we, as fans, may have to bite the bullet and accept this season isn't going to go smoothly from here on in.

    The 22-game unbeaten run falsely raised everyone's hopes. Now we've come back down to reality with a thud.
     
    #35
  16. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    https://www.arsenaltrust.org/news/2017/arsenals-financial-position-for-201718-assessed

    If anyone's interested. Scroll to the bottom of the link and it'll summarise it all for you.

    Our match-day, broadcast and commercial revenue all fell by £40m due to non-CL participation. Our wage bill went up by 17.5%. Doesn't take a genius to work out that this is going to be unsustainable the longer we are out of the CL.

    Can't stress enough just how important it is to get Champions League football next season.

    We need to find a way.
     
    #36
  17. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    11,466
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    Of course. I would be suprised if there is more than £30million available in January. Wenger left Emery a bloated squad with our fringe players on high wages.

    I think the Banega and Cahill rumours are spot on. Both make sense and both can come in and improve the starting 11. (neither are going to turn us into title challengers but both are solid signings that can make an immediate impact)

    In the Summer however:

    We need to offload: Elneny, Jenkinson,Lichsteiner, Mustafi, Koscielny, Cech, possibly Ozil also.
    Ramsey will probably leave on a free.
    I expect we will get rid either Monreal or Kolasinac.

    That would leave a rather hefty chunk of cash/wage bill available for new arrivals.

    I think we will bring in a tricky WF.
    (Dembele is probably the aim but - would be hard one to pull off given his form this Season)
    Another CentreBack
    A playmaker.
     
    #37
  18. jaffaklopp

    jaffaklopp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    16,217
    Likes Received:
    7,275
    In the nicest way I think you need to get over it. Emery has been there 6 months and I still wouldn't bet against him taking you all the way in the Europa. I think you were unfortunate that you bumped into us playing well and riding a high with recent results.
     
    #38
    The Ides of March likes this.
  19. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    Appreciate the kind words mate, but as I've said above: Unless we sort this defence out, we aren't going to be winning ****.

    I'm just sick of the capitulations we've had in recent years. We've lost 4-0 and 5-1 twice at Anfield in recent years, got spanked 6-0 by Chelsea, 8-2 at United, 6-3 at City, 4-0 at Southampton.

    Any team can have a bad day and receive a drubbing, but it happens to us far too often for an alleged 'top' club.

    The truth is right now, we have a very good attack, a slightly above average midfield and a substandard defence. You can't keep relying on your forwards to save the bacon every game. Every player in every position has to pull their weight otherwise there's no point in competing.

    The one thing that's helped you lot is the huge fees you received for Coutinho and Suarez. You got around £207m for those 2 alone, which you then reinvested into plugging all the holes in your squad. Now you're reaping the benefits.

    Arsenal don't get anywhere close to that sort of money for our players. Our players either leave on frees, in the final year of their contracts or they get sold to average clubs for a pittance.

    Gotta say though. Liverpool look unbelievable this season. Klopp's built an incredible side there. Quality forwards, solid midfield and an impenetrable defence. You have an excellent bench too.

    Hope you lot go all the way, would make a change from the usual suspects winning it.

    All the best for the rest of the season.
     
    #39
  20. jaffaklopp

    jaffaklopp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    16,217
    Likes Received:
    7,275
    Personally I would care more about style and enjoyment in watching. You have shown more flair and excitement in your football these past months than Mourinho did in his time at Utd. Consistency comes with time, you just have a squad of mostly passengers who need shipping or need to get on board.
     
    #40

Share This Page