1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Malaysian Grand Prix Awards

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by cosicave, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    5,277
    Likes Received:
    660
    Best Driver:
    Worst Driver:
    Best Rookie/New Driver:
    Best Team:
    Surprise Team:
    Worst Team:
    Best Overtake:

    Most Surprising Result:
    Least Surprising Result:
    Funniest moment:
    Excuse of the week:

    Special Mention:
    Best post from the race thread:
    Race Rating: ?/10
     
    #1
  2. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,403
    Likes Received:
    5,570
    I think we might need a new category for Strollolololol today.

    Head up their arse:
     
    #2
  3. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    811
    Best Driver: Max
    Worst Driver: Palmer (Crazy defending against Vettel that costing himself places and the spin), although Ocon was a close shout.
    Best Rookie/New Driver: Pierre, kept it clean.
    Best Team: RB
    Surprise Team: RB
    Worst Team: Ferrari
    Best Overtake: Ricc, on Bottas was nice.

    Most Surprising Result: Lewis not winning
    Least Surprising Result: Seb not winning
    Funniest moment: Alonso moaning
    Excuse of the week:

    Special Mention: Stoffel, Seb and Lewis
    Best post from the race thread:
    Race Rating: 8.23/10
     
    #3
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  4. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    23,534
    Likes Received:
    17,781
    Best Driver: I'm going left-field, Vandoorne
    Worst Driver: Apparently Jolyon spun twice, Ocon hit 3 people but scored a point (how has he finished so many races? He has an accident or 3 every race), and Magnusson's weaving, but Ericsson is still the worst.
    Best Rookie/New Driver: Vandoorne, obviously, but the other 2 can hold their heads high.
    Best Team: RBR here
    Surprise Team: for me, McLaren.
    Worst Team: Ferrari break-down assistance
    Best Overtake: The Ric/Bottas sequence

    Most Surprising Result: Redbull
    Least Surprising Result: Ericsson at the back
    Funniest moment:
    Excuse of the week:

    Special Mention:
    Best post from the race thread:
    Race Rating: Can't give one til I've seen the final 20 laps
     
    #4
  5. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,704
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    Best Driver: hmmmmm... Vettel. ok max had the car and did one pass, then controled. is that worthy? Not sure. vettel had the car and passed a lot too.
    Worst Driver: hmmmmm... vettel? i agree on palmer he is toast. but serious vettel WTF.
    Best Rookie/New Driver: only one real new driver no? not anyway vandorne scores good points.
    Best Team: Red bull.
    Surprise Team: Mclaren frnakly. shocked neither exploded.
    Worst Team: ferrari.
    Best Overtake: I agree with others ricciardo and bottas right at start.

    Most Surprising Result: Raikkonen not making the start tbh.
    Least Surprising Result: Mercedes with only eyes on vettel.
    Funniest moment:
    Excuse of the week: Stroll wasn't even looking?

    Special Mention:
    Best post from the race thread:
    Race Rating: 7/10 it was a good race as there was action.
     
    #5
  6. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    5,277
    Likes Received:
    660
    Best Driver: Verstappen.
    Worst Driver: Palmer was doing very well, keeping up with Hulkenberg all the way … until losing concentration (my opinion). Ericsson's lack of pace means concentration is rarely a problem. Toss a coin.
    Best Rookie/New Driver: Two drivers deserve this. Vandoorne outclassed Alonso and Gasly was very impressive all weekend. Kvyat has a problem coming his way…
    Best Team: Red Bull. No question.
    Surprise Team: With divorce papers signed but Honda still sharing the McLaren house, I think both will look back with regrets of a 'second time around' love affair which happened too soon. The odds were always stacked against Honda. I wish both parties well in the aftermath.
    Worst Team: Given they probably had the fastest package for this race and an excellent opportunity to close the gap to Hamilton (the Drivers' Championship is all the team are really interested in); Ferrari.
    Best Overtake: I'll go for Ricciardo on Bottas for its significance, but in truth, the Red Bull was the quicker car and it would have happened sooner than later in any case.

    Most Surprising Result: Ferrari messing up consecutive weekends.
    Least Surprising Result: Vettel immediately blaming a person he took no account of.
    Funniest moment: Vettel immediately blaming a person he took no account of.
    Excuse of the week: Vettel blaming Stroll for his own stupidity. Completely unnecessary. An ignorant onlooker might be forgiven for thinking it's his first season. He just doesn't seem to take account of what other drivers may do…

    Special Mention: Gasly. Likely to make it. Kvyat now under threat. Bit of a shame for the latter because although a little inconsistent, he is quick and fiesty. The bonus is Crofter may lose one of his irritating, clever dick, affectations. "kFiat"? – It's even worse than "Fettle". Vook ovv.
    Race Rating: 7.52/10
     
    #6
  7. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    23,534
    Likes Received:
    17,781
    I don't get this, it's quite clear from the onboard replay that Stroll drifts a cars width right straight into Vettel, rather than the other way around, what you're saying is no one should overtake on the cool down lap just in case the person they are overtaking decides, at that precise moment, to drift into them to pick up some marbles whilst doing their best not to look in the direction they are drifting.
     
    #7
  8. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    5,277
    Likes Received:
    660
    Yes, Stroll drifts wide.
    Forgive my potentially repetitive response…

    He is not in a race and is attempting to pick up marbles in a place where it is standard practice to do so. He has every right to drift wide. He is not in a race and all cars are travelling slowly; there is far more 'reaction time' than normal for all drivers concerned. I am certainly not saying that overtaking should not occur on a cool down lap. Not at all. No more than I would suggest overtaking on a public road should not occur. What matters is that overtaking is done safely. And that requires the driver who intends to overtake, to ensure that the move is safe and that his intentions are understood. The only requirement upon the driver about to be overtaken is to take appropriate action if they are aware that such overtaking is about to happen. I would suggest Stroll was not aware. Why was this likely? – My opinion is that firstly, he would not have been expecting to be overtaken at that point at that moment (due to the circumstances already outlined); and secondly, that when he decided to drift wide for marbles, he could not see Vettel approaching.

    Since Vettel seems to approach from within Stroll's blind spot, it is unreasonable, in my opinion, to expect Stroll to be MORE cautious or MORE aware, than Vettel. Vettel knew he and Stroll were about to get close together. Stroll did not know. They were not racing. The onus is on the driver behind to ensure that his intended overtake is safe to do so, just as is the case on a public road.

    For these reasons, I do not agree with those who feel it was a fault of Stroll's. I have attempted to explain this in the main thread. My point is that Vettel put himself in a position of potential danger for no good reason. The race had finished. Drivers then set about collecting marbles on the cool down lap. Vettel approached Stroll in his blind-spot. Stroll, in my opinion, had little or no chance to see Vettel in time to take avoiding action. Vettel cut in at the same time Stroll goes out for marbles.

    In my opinion, Vettel was foolish to think about passing at this point on the track at that particular moment because there was no need to put himself in a position of potential danger. None at all.

    [Edited for punctuation]
     
    #8
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  9. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,403
    Likes Received:
    5,570
    Surely he had plenty of time to see Vettel was there and react.
     
    #9
  10. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    5,277
    Likes Received:
    660
    Well, it would appear that he did not!

    In my opinion, Vettel approached from within his blind spot. One must ask a simple question: who had the most time to react, Stroll or Vettel? Vettel certainly had a clear view of Stroll, whilst the inverse is not necessarily the case.

     
    #10

  11. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,403
    Likes Received:
    5,570
    By the time Stroll clobbered him, Vettel was all but passed.
     
    #11
  12. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    5,277
    Likes Received:
    660
    Yes, the contact was with Vettel's rear wheel. But from Stroll's perspective, Vettel cuts across from a previously invisible position.

    Once again, one can only ask who had the MOST time to assess the situation?
     
    #12
  13. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    5,277
    Likes Received:
    660
    Vettel seems to have presumed he had been seen without any corroborative evidence. Vettel had a better view. Vettel had more time to take account of what was unfolding. Vettel had more time to take avoiding action if needed.

    Stroll was doing the normal thing after a race has finished, in the most normal place to do it, at speeds far below those when racing. If Vettel had been in view to Stroll, yes, Stroll could have been expected to take avoiding action (even though the onus is still on the driver behind to avoid an accident, similar to driving under Safety Car during race). But I do not believe Stroll was more at fault. Vettel put himself in a position of danger unnecessarily, which is why – especially as the far more experienced driver – I feel he only has himself to blame for putting himself in such a situation.
     
    #13
  14. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,403
    Likes Received:
    5,570
    To me it looks like he's left ample room to Stroll. He'd pretty much given him half the track. Shame there's no aerial footage of the whole thing.
     
    #14
  15. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    5,277
    Likes Received:
    660
    Regardless of the norms I've already explained (which all favour Stroll as the more innocent party), approaching another car on its right into a left-hander is very likely to involve being in the blind-spot of the leading driver at some point, especially from a wide position where the leading driver is primarily concerned with looking through the corner (i.e. well to his/her left).

    Vettel knows this. He's a well-seasoned driver.
     
    #15
  16. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,374
    Likes Received:
    1,830
    Best Driver: Verstappen
    Worst Driver: Palmer
    Best Rookie/New Driver: Stroll
    Best Team: Red Bull
    Surprise Team: Mclaren
    Worst Team: Ferrari
    Best Overtake:

    Most Surprising Result: Vettel 4th
    Least Surprising Result: Bottas 5th
    Funniest moment: aww come on Alonso. Your better than that.....(What happens later?)
    Excuse of the week:

    Special Mention: Vandoorn
    Best post from the race thread:
    Race Rating: 8/10
     
    #16
  17. dhel

    dhel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    224
    New video released from Stroll onboard shows that His steering was turned to the left and Vettel simply crashed into him. Stroll didn't drift at all.
     
    #17
  18. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    23,534
    Likes Received:
    17,781
    but surely you should be looking at where you're going, especially if you're on a cool-down lap and people maybe picking up rubber and you're about to move from the racing line. TBH it just seems liek the usual 'blame Vettel' scenario so oft repeated in the British media. Last race it was because he did what every pole sitter has done since whenever (any ideas who started it?) and didn't fold at the start and give up 8 points simply because Max was on the front row.
    Admittedly the onboard from behind is the only view I've had, so I haven't been able to see what Vettel did in the lead up to it but from what I have seen I can see that Stroll is far from blameless. I'd probably see it as a 'racing incident', if they were racing of course.

    As a side note, is there any excuse for a Formula 1 car to have a blind-spot these days? At the very minimum collision sensors could be fitted at the rear, though personally I'd go for a centrally rear facing fish eye camera and lose the wing-mirror drag, weight maybe a factor, but you could probably install something that weighs less than a phone.

    It's clear from the onboard behind that he drifted right half-way around the corner, no one turns right on a left hander, if you want to move right you just don't steer quite so far left. (If you do it right you can stick your mate in the tyres when you lap him and look totally innocent, even though you planned it four corners earlier. Some caution must be taken though, as you may spin afterwards as a result of laughing when you should be braking)




    BTW, I'm not saying Vettel is innocent of blame, just that Stroll isn't.
     
    #18
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  19. dhel

    dhel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    224
    Not sure he drifted right from what I have seen from his onboard. Actually his steering was always to the left and turned more to the left as Vettel was coming...just seems like Vettel wasn't paying attention at all. I have no problem with the decision though, but Vettel needs to start owning up to his mistakes instead of blaming everybody and calling others idiots.

    Oh...and I totally agree with you about the question about why are there obvious blind spots etc.
     
    #19
  20. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,374
    Likes Received:
    1,830
    He was steering left but not fully to take the normal line around the corner hence drifting wide.

    I do though think Vettel was going too quick and too close to other cars. But not buying the conspiracy he crashed on purpose.
     
    #20

Share This Page