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Grand Prix thread Monza - Formula 1 Heineken Gran Premio D’italia 2021

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by ched999uk, Sep 9, 2021.

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Who will cross the line first?

Poll closed Sep 10, 2021.
  1. Lewis Hamilton

    5 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. Max Verstappen

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  3. Valtteri Bottas

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  4. Sergio Perez

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Lando Norris

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Charles Leclerc

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Carlos Sainz

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Pierre Gasly

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. George Russell

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Any Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    Late in the day considering what he's gotten away with so far in his career, so I wonder there's something on the telemetry, like max going from 75% -100% throttle when he realised what was going to happen, that's made them penalise him this time.
     
    #181
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  2. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    If that were the case, I'd imagine the drop would have been higher.

    It's just frustrating to me that we can't get a good race between them.

    The Alonso Hamilton battle was a brilliant example of how you can race hard and not wind up in the kitty litter. We need that.
     
    #182
  3. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Seems like the reason for stewards mainly blaming Max was because he wasn't significantly alongside before the entry for the 1st corner. They determined he attempted the manoeuvre too late for him to have the right to racing room!

    As Max has to take a PU penalty at some point it seems like a no brainer for him to take the new PU and components at the next race where he has to serve the 3 place penalty anyway.
     
    #183
  4. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Indy coming up folks.:)
     
    #184
  5. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    So.... Not a brill race championship wise today, but just been catching upon the post race stuff I missed, and I'm made up for Ricciardo, Lando and Macca as a whole. Bit by bit they have been clawing their way back, and this was a well deserved reward for that effort. Hopefully the reg changes won't see them going backwards.

    They definitely have the most likable driver pairing on the grid.
     
    #185
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  6. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    Max full speed coming down the straight. Lewis exiting the pit. Hamilton giving the squeeze it was always going to happen. Was either a racing incident of they both should have got the penalty.
     
    #186
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  7. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    I don't buy that. There was only one way Hamilton was going through there, and the gap was always going to vanish unless Hamilton got completely out of his way.

    Should it be a penalty? Probably not, because it's racing and I hate penalties for racing, but Max said move or we crash...and that's what happened. He wasn't going to make that one stick without Hamilton conceding.
     
    #187
  8. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Max said move or we crash while behind and attempting the move which is what makes it the right call imo. Hard not to compare to lap one turn four where Hamilton has more momentum but doesn't see a way to make it stick without a crash and chooses to avoid a crash, losing a place and compromising his race.

    They need to clarify the rules somehow - or find a way to communicate them better to the average punter. As I understand it, you can't just dive bomb into a corner and claim to be "mostly alongside" as a result and demand that your opponent completely compromises their corner to give you space. If that's within the rules, then F1 would get very messy very quickly.
     
    #188
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  9. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem with the giving space part of it all. Where do you draw the line between giving room for a legitimate attempt and just throwing one in there and forcing the defending drive have to move because they're obliged to?
     
    #189
  10. eddie_squidd

    eddie_squidd Well-Known Member

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    Maybe that will be Max's legacy, like all those rules that had to be codified as a result of Schumacher's disregard for racing etiquette. In Max's case it will be having to decide exactly what's acceptable, what constitutes "mostly alongside", "leaving room" etc.

    It worries me a bit that we had a crash today where the outcome could have been very serious. It was a nasty little crash. It doesn't seem to have lead to much in the way or humility or soul searching from Max or, judging from what I've read today, his fans on social media.
     
    #190

  11. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    So today, Max is throwing one around the outside in to a gap that's only going to close, but also you can argue he's alongside and has some right to the corner. So at which point do you say that the the defending car has to yield vs the attacker having to back out? There is a bit of ambiguity in there which is why there are differing opinions. 9/10 common sense prevails.... But Max isn't the kind of driver that is going to give a single inch.

    Similar to Silverstone (most of the blame goes to Hamilton for that though), had he been slightly less aggressive, I think he'd have come out best by being more measured. Tucking in and getting a run on Hamilton with warmer tyres trough Grande was likely to play in his favor.
     
    #191
  12. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Btw.. I don't buy the tactical foul bollocks. I just think he has a bit of a problem potentially losing out, especially if it's Hamilton right now. Wouldn't want to play him at Monopoly. The board would be going out the window. :p
     
    #192
  13. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Precisely.

    And yes, there's going to have to be some sort of clarification. When I watch Max's onboard of that incident, I just can't believe he didn't back out and cut across the chicane. I'm guessing (and it is just a guess) that his telemetry data would show he was going faster into the corner than he did on any previous lap too. Pisses me off, not just because of the safety elements, but because we keep being denied good races.
     
    #193
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  14. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    That's my biggest annoyance right now. I want to see this play out on-track. It could be such a tremendous battle, one that stands out with the best, and we keep being denied the fight.
     
    #194
  15. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I think Red Bull have perpetuated Max's upbringing from his Dad i.e. that no matter what, you go for it, you are a good little boy if you go for every opportunity no matter the outcome at least you tried!!! Maybe that's a bit harsh?
    It's almost like Max believes that everyone must move out of his way as he has the right to put his car where he wants. He doesn't respect anyone.

    If you look at Lewis vs Alonso the other race, they were battling hard but with respect. Max just doesn't give an inch but expects everyone else to give him a car width, it's almost like he thinks there are 1 set of rules for him and another for everyone else.

    I'm not sure we will ever get a respectful battle between Lewis and Max which is a great pity as it would be a spectacular battle.
     
    #195
  16. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    I've said it for a long time about Max.... There is an absolutely amazing driver there, but he's surrounded by the wrong people. All he needs is for somebody to tell him when he's effed up and that he might need think a little more ahead and he could be utterly brilliant. He's got the talent, he's got the speed, just needs to dial it in a tad.

    If he gets the title this season, nothing will change. If he misses out, he may reflect.
     
    #196
  17. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    I remember sending a female friend a text thanking her while I had predictive text on. The result was one I felt the need to apologise for only to find out she was quite happy with the text.
     
    #197
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  18. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    There have been three incidents that I can remember where the Halo has potentially saved the life of the driver.
    1. I think was in 2018 a car became airborne and its wheel would have hit the head of another driver, can't quite remember the the drivers involved.
    2. Last year with the Grosjean crash
    3. Today it saved Lewis (potentially).

    That is three lives in 4 years.
    I have to believe the driving has become more aggressive in recent years, I can not remember a time when so many lives might have been lost.
    Given the aggression is it time for a word with the drivers and harsher penalties. If a life is lost might a charge of manslaughter be applicable, probably it would be in Italy if not in some of the other countries. Not trying to kill the racing but a disregard for the consequences is not healthy.
    Nor should a three place grid penalty be nulled with an engine change, no matter who the driver is, that is no penalty at all.
     
    #198
  19. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    The Halo has certainly prevented some potentially horrible spots, but the aero shield used in Indy seems to be a great solution to me. Big downside is the heat introduced to the cockpit though
     
    #199
  20. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Lewis could sue Max for his neck injury. Lewis may think he is alright but when hits 60 he may find he isn't so good. hope he gets it checked fully. I have an old injury that now needs surgery.
     
    #200

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