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Mourinho...how long will he be given?

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by remembercolinlee, Jan 1, 2020.

?

How long will he be given?

  1. Til we go out of the CL?

    1 vote(s)
    4.2%
  2. Til the end of the season?

    5 vote(s)
    20.8%
  3. Til next Oct/Nov?

    13 vote(s)
    54.2%
  4. Will be a success so irrelevant?

    5 vote(s)
    20.8%
  1. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Ok...am genuinely interested in seeing how spurs fans feel.

    (others welcome to join in but please do not wum...there is a whole premier league board for that <ok>.)

    I am clearly opposed to this appointment and was from when it was first mentioned. I have said several times that I felt the same when we appointed AVB (but thought I might be saying that with the power of hindsight) so I looked up the thread from 2012 on here and it was my feeling at the time.

    I genuinely hope I am wrong but he has looked liked a broken manager ever since he turned on his medical staff at Chelsea back in 2015.

    I always support the team and do not get on players backs or boo but can see a repeat of the ending of the AVB era where the football was turgid, defence non existent and the atmosphere at the ground ranged from dead to toxic.

    We play Boro away in the cup, Liverpool (h) watford (a) Norwich (h) City (h) all in the next 31 days.

    I genuinely struggle to see anything but a serious battering by Liverpool, I struggle to see us beating or even drawing with Watford, Norwich is anyone's guess and I can only see a city win.

    If we are out of the cup by then and these results occur questions will begin about the wisdom of who was made our manager.

    There are various other positives such as the transfer window which might change things for the better.

    NOTE
    Can we have a sensible debate with digging at someone for being "Jose fan" or "Levy suck up"?
     
    #1
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  2. Sucky

    Sucky peoples champ & forum saviour

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    He just needs time and some of his own players, you can't really expect him to come in and turn it around overnight when youve got an unsettled squad and unhappy players who want out. Hes still a good manager even if maybe his style of football is a little dated.

    Ps. I wouldnt worry about playing us, we're always moureens premier park de bus game. Probs be 1 nil to you after us battering you all game<laugh>
     
    #2
  3. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Southampton deserved to beat us. Norwich deserved their draw. Chelsea deserved to beat us. Wolves will be disappointed not to have got a draw.
    Thats 4 out of our last 5 matches.
    We ain't being unlucky or not getting the rub of the green ... we are just...poor!
    There is no way we can keep a clean sheet against Salah, Firmino, Mane etc.
    Can see it being a repeat of the AVB last match where you won 5 nil.
     
    #3
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  4. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I'd say promising start but now I'm completely underwhelmed.

    Jose wasn't my first choice to replace Poch as you all know, though I appreciated his credentials as a manager - even if he has had some extremely good fortune with finances.

    New in the job or not, when you're being paid a fortune to improve a team then expectations begin immediately. Nearly £300k a week to persist with Aurier, persist with Toby whilst dropping our best CB recently and play a style that's akin to 2009 Stoke City for the most part hasn't been enjoyable. Don't get me wrong, Poch wasn't serving up any better this season and we have to remember that but we've brought in someone who was supposedly going to turn these players into winners and instead - in recent matches - we're seeing a team who've given up from the moment the opening whistle has blown.

    I'm not gonna turn on the manager though despite my criticism of him in recent games, I'm pissed off with performances/ results but I appreciate it's still early days for Jose and hopefully someone like him will be able to bring in some top notch signings as his reputation in the game and amongst players is still extremely huge.

    How long do I think he'll last? I'll probably have a clearer answer in the summer. He deserves this window to start implementing his own players into a style. By March-ish we should have an idea as to what Jose is about and by the end of the season, depending on points/ positional finish, it'll give me an idea as to whether I think hiring turned out to be the right or wrong choice. He's been hired to get top four, make no mistake of that, so that's what I'm expecting.
     
    #4
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  5. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    We're losing 5-0 mate. We can't even park a toy car, let alone a bus.
     
    #5
  6. Sucky

    Sucky peoples champ & forum saviour

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    Hes never gotten over that luis garcia cl semi goal, acts accordingly too when ever hes pkayed agaisnt us since, chavs and utd amd i dont see it being different with you.

    Ill take 5 nil though <laugh>
     
    #6
  7. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    So will I, because on current form, it should be about 8 or 9.
     
    #7
  8. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

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    Levy hired him, all on his own. He’s gonna look a complete **** if he sacks him after less than 1 yr. So, I think he’s gonna be around for a while yet.
     
    #8
  9. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    Similar to DH, I think he had a promising start but we’ve tailed off. There are some problems that aren’t Jose’s fault - the squad is badly balanced, some players are past it or just not pulling their weight, or constantly injured. Those are problems that have been building for a few years at Spurs.

    What’s frustrating with Jose is the team selections and tactics. Now admittedly he’s hamstrung a bit by the above points - both FBs are a massive problem and the midfield is shot to pieces by bad squad composition and injured players - and he’s had to adapt by doing things like the asymmetrical back 4 and weird combinations in midfield. I don’t totally blame him for this but there are also things he’s getting wrong. He can’t stop Sonny getting a daft suspension, but he can get the team to work on a shape and tactics on the training ground, which I’ve seen no sign of in recent games. Yes it’s the busiest time of the year for fixtures so I get that he doesn’t have much time to do this right now but still, it’s not good enough.

    Poch had to go. Things weren’t right and by the end I think a fair few of us were of the opinion that he couldn’t fix it. He was too far down the rabbit hole. We won’t know if Jose was the right man for the job until a few years from now. I think he’ll get at least until the Summer and from there it’ll depend on our business. Not making CL this year would be an issue but I didn’t see us making it with Poch at the helm for the rest of the season.

    Whether Jose is the right person to hire and to take on the rebuilding of this team is another question, maybe for another thread.
     
    #9
  10. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    I am fizzing about the selections and performances in recent weeks.

    However, the bloke I saw on the touchline today looked clueless and as if he'd been hit by a train. Then the ****ty deflecting antics started.

    If he's not winning, he's a ****ing nightmare at any club. I've no desire to watch him embarrass us and tonight, I would be delighted to hear that he'd left to share his talents with someone else.
     
    #10

  11. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    The squad reminds me of when Redknapp took over.
    Good players on paper but a crap team, with no balance and no confidence.
    The problem is that Redknapp had a list of players he wanted and got in the January transfer window...I think that was the last time we spent big in the Jsnuary window...Defoe, Keane, Palicios and Chimbonda (I think) all joined or rejoined. It cost apver £50m.

    We will need something similar (but in todays market that could be £130m) if we are to salvage even a crumb from this season...can't see it happening tbh.
     
    #11
  12. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    Give him time because none of the problems he inherited are solved overnight.
    The glaring failures to replace Dembele and then Trippier and the inability/unwillingness to sort out the contract rebels were down to those above the manager of the club. Those responsible need to make sure they address similar problems earlier and more effectively if they arise in the future, otherwise they will hang the manager out to dry whoever he is.
     
    #12
  13. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    This is an excellent and balanced take on things <applause>

    And thank you RCL for making this a separate thread, it allows us to use the match day threads to focus on the immediate aftermath of a game, whereas this is much more of a long-term question. <applause>

    Look, it's no secret (as my avatar shows) that I was against sacking Poch. I feel somewhat vindicated in the sense that in the build-up to his departure, I typed at whoever would listen that it wouldn't make one iota of difference who we brought in, whoever sat in the dug out in January and June would need a huge war chest to rebuild what has become a rotting carcass of a squad. As I said after the game today, it reminds me a lot of the squad we had under AVB/Tim: one or two top class players, a bunch of older players past their best, a bunch of players who don't want to be here, and a bunch more who are simply not fit for purpose. There is one huge different between the two groups: the almost complete lack of promising youngsters who we can turn to as once upon a time we turned to Mason, Bentaleb, Townsend and Kane. That part truly worries me in as much as it means the war chest will need to be that much larger to compensate for the fact that the likes of Skipp and Parrott are nowhere near the requisite standard, whilst the likes of KWP and Tanganga will probably be gone by the end of the season.

    For me, the OP's question is a moot point stacked up against what remains the great unknown in all of this: what do ENIC think is the way forward? What are their intentions for the club? And as I said long before we pulled the rug from underneath Poch, if they have little to no intention of mending this in the logical way, we could face a long-term future riddled with uncertainty and underachievement. And our shiny new stadium could start to empty our pretty rapidly.
     
    #13
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  14. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

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    Is he still there?
     
    #14
  15. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    1.Who?
    2.Where?
     
    #15
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  16. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

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    3. Why?
    4. What?
    5. When?

    And finally....
    6 How... The feck do we get out of this mess?
     
    #16
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  17. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Unfortunately, Mourinho is usually for something around 2.5 seasons, not just for Christmas.
     
    #17
  18. Billy The Spur

    Billy The Spur Well-Known Member

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    Mourinho has inherited all the problems Poch had, Poch warned us we needed a painful rebuild, he saw this shiete show coming but Levy would not spend what is obviously required. Instead, Levy panicked and gambled, and sacked the best manager we have had in around 35 years and replaced him with Mourinho, who he hoped could work some magic and get our existing squad into the top 4. Sacking Poch has changed nothing, our squad has all the same problems and if anything we are playing worse football under Mourinho, and he won`t get the funds required to build his own team.

    We are not getting into the top 4 with this squad of players, it doesn`t matter who the manager is, we simply have too many players not good enough, not committed enough or not fit enough. No decent full back at the club, no bite and drive in midfield, two centre halves past their prime and their understudies shiete themselves every time they receive the ball and resemble bambi on ice.

    I have seen zero improvement under Mourinho, we would have been better off sticking with Poch and riding it out. There is no doubt Mourinho is very good manager and has won more than plenty, but he won`t get the same backing here, he is just a bad fit for Spurs.
     
    #18
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  19. LockStock

    LockStock Well-Known Member

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    I find it problematic, and slightly inaccurate to accuse Levy of 'not spending' as the issue. Controversial, I know. I believe people are quick to forget how many players we had, and still have, that need to be shipped out before others can come in to the squad, simply because of quota numbers. That is before we even get into the issue of building a flippin' great big stadium in the process.

    How long was Janssen on the books not doing much? Pretty much as soon as he, and N'koudou left, in come Ndombele and Lo Celso. I don't think this is coincidence. Wanyama leaving will too free up more space to allow players from overseas to enter. Dybala was due to take Llorente's space, but that deal didn't happen, not for lack of Levy wanting to spend.

    I was very sceptical about Mourinho, I am still reserving my judgement until the end of the season when it will be clearer what his, and the clubs, real intentions are. If this chapter is about managing the transition of the refresh, allowing us to aim for a higher caliber of player than was seemingly realistic under Pochettino, then I am all for it. (Lemar, Soumare and Koulibally come to mind.) I also think that some players were becoming too familiar with Pochettino in a way that was breeding complacency.

    (By way of quick comparison, I remember Klopp axing Emre Can with a quickness when he was seemingly acting up. Replaced eventually with Fabinho. Great switch. We seem to be slower in getting players OUT when they don't quite fit. A skill that we know Pochettino can do, he just hasn't in a long time.)

    Mourinho will have a point to prove. He will want to win something whilst he is here. I have no doubt about that at least. Let's see how high the aim is. Are we going for CL with real intent? Or just a domestic cup. This window will tell us all there is to know.

    I have a hunch that the next manager will be Pochettino again if Levy can make it happen, and even if Mourinho is a roaring success, I don't think he is in any way a long term appointment. I think Levy knows that to build another phase with younger players and high pressing, Pochettino is the better fit.
     
    #19
  20. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    Great post LS, although I don't necessarily agree with the last paragraph. I wouldn't be surprised if one day in the distant future, Poch came back. But for now, I fully expect him to take a new job ahead of next season and spend quite a while wherever that is.

    I agree - our biggest failure last summer was not clearing enough players out. This, combined with the eventuality that almost no-one predicted: Toby and Eriksen were still at the club when the window closed. I think it was clear that Poch was expecting both to leave and to have circa £60-80m more to work with as a result. The Dybala deal failing and the Lo Celso deal turning into a loan were signs that we didn't have as much money in the bank as we'd anticipated.

    Which is why the priority this window - when decent incomings are both overpriced and almost impossible to find - has to be a step-up on the clearout project, one which has only gotten bigger since the summer and now probably stands at:

    KWP
    Aurier
    Rose
    Wanyama
    Dier
    Eriksen

    When you think that 3-4 of those weren't supposed to be at the club beyond August, it's obvious that we have a huge task on our hands. As we did when Poch first took over and cleared out the dross in his first two windows, we'll probably need to accept cut-price deals and call it a day.
     
    #20
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