Sorry, misread the post due to the formatting. Fact remains it's hair splitting of 30 v 40 million, not something in the order of 200m. Not worth getting this worked up over. Especially as I said, because two people challenged his post despite you subsequently complaining no one does.
It's debt to ourselves. It's not debt like Derby. As far as external leveraged debt is concerned we owe nothing.
"So you believe that the club is no better off now than when the Allams took it over" - this is the sentence that contains the answer. "The Club" Many years ago I had a moment of clarity. I will now share this great realisation once again. You have to separate the two entities, Hull City Tigers Ltd, the football related business, from Hull City AFC, the football club. As custodians of Hull City Tigers Ltd, financially they are more or less back to where they started from. Arrived with debts of 40 million ish, last published accounts, 40 million ish. For simplicity, I have ignored interest payments and group tax breaks. Therefore it is fair to say, financially, Hull city Tigers Ltd is no better or worse off when they sell. The decisions made that have caused consternation, if looked at from a purely financial view, actually make sense. Hull City AFC. This is the bit that is almost impossible to quantify in financial terms. Supporters have an attachment, an investment, that goes beyond hard cold cash. They leave a divided fanbase that will take some healing. From day one, amidst all the whooping, cheering, the club has been saved, gift, all of that, there were the one or two little voices whispering, "be careful what you wish for". Now, as their departure is imminent, new owners in waiting, I echo that sentiment.
"what did the Romans ever do for us eh"?? I guess what will determine whether we're 'better or worse off' will be how much of said debt transfers to the new ownership. It's also worth noting that when they took over the club was facing administration and potential liquidation (AP's assessment). We're not in that position now.
Just to clarify AP's assessment. It would be liquidation, in AP's words "administration was not an option, there was nothing to administer"
Hardly the same position financially as now. Out of interest. Does anyone know if Bartlett and Duffen bought the club from AP outright in one transaction or were there Installments still owed to AP at that time?
The Allams were the people who bought the club in a very tricky position, corrected it and gave me two of my favourite football experiences, the FA Cup Final and the final day drama v Cardiff. I'm thankful to them for that. But if a friend bailed me out of a tight financial spot, I enjoyed some class trips to the pub with them, but they then turned confrontational and sucked the joy out of being with them, I would probably end the friendship. The Allams will have got back everything they put into the club (and arguably more) but in my opinion they've turned supporting the club into a joyless experience for at least 5 years. Will it be worth it? I guess in the long run we'll see whether we're in a position to unite the club under new owners. I don't need success but it'd be nice to see the club not constantly bring out controversial plans or lack any sort of ambition. I just want something to get behind and then maybe I can forget. But I'm not sure I'll ever look back on this period with any sort of fondness, despite the early on pitch success.
You can split the Allams reign into 2 distinct periods for me. Agree that the last 7 years has been a joyless experience as a supporter and there's no question they have to go for us to move on. That's not to say they don't deserve some credit for the financial stability and development of the academy - same way as they deserve criticism for their alienation of - well, virtually all of the clubs wider stakeholders.
Yes but I guess my point as to whether it’ll all have been worth it will be what happens under the new owners. If the fan base can’t be mended, if the years of progress under Pearson was ultimately ruined by a couple if seasons of success, then I’m not sure it was. If it’s brought back together? Maybe it was. We’ll see.
If what I expect to happen happens, then the 'fanbase' will look completely different in the years to come than anything that has gone before. We've never had an international platform before.
Not if you don't want to. It was a simple question with absolutely no malice attached and I asked the question because I was curious and don't recall it being described as that previously.
I used to wake up on match days and be like a kid at Christmas. I couldn’t wait for the match day experience to start. I remember a Boxing Day game being called off, it felt worse than losing. The name change, the lies, and most of all the arguing between City fans even while the games were being played made it utterly joyless for me. I decided to stop going when I was at a game and realised I’d rather be at work. Friends of ours also stopped going, at different times but for similar reasons, we had a million times more fun following City in division four. It’s never been about just the football, it’s always been the whole experience of following our team. The antics of the owners killed it for me and I can only hope that new owners can resurrect the passion.
For me it's been the managed decline and alienation of the support caused by the name change attempt and the removal of concessions. Not helped by the fact they've fallen out with pretty much every other stakeholder to the point that without a sale there's no longer any hope that the future will be any brighter whilst they're still here. I appreciate the good things but it's time to go for the benefit of all concerned.