Grand Prix thread Not606 2018 Brazilian GP Chat and Predictions

Interesting point. And maybe they even thought of saying it, but were too intimidated to actually say it.

Seems like this is at the heart of the philosophical debate...

• if you are faster you overtake; or
• if you really are faster, you wouldn't have been lapped in the first place. Stay out of the way.

It's easy to think of scenarios for and against each of these positions.

I hope (and expect) that they'll leave the situation as it is - you're allowed to unlap yourself. Then it's down to the drivers to navigate each situation (a challenge that shouldn't be beyond them - supposedly the best drivers on the planet).

For me, a key question is "If the tables were turned, which of those positions would Verstappen/Horner be taking?" I suspect we all know the answer.

 

I think Danny Ric does too.

 

Okay, Ocon was on fresher tyres at that point, but realistically how many laps would he have had that advantage for?

I think judgement on the incident is being clouded by the fact Max is a colossal knob. Ocon did not have control of the corner, so being the lapped car should have conceded the position. Yes, yes, Max had a race to lose etc, but the leader should not have to expect to fight a corner with a backmarker. Ocon was not clean past at the exit of turn 1 so IMHO should have ducked back in under Max rather than try and fight it around the outside like he was racing for position.

Max's actions (and backing by Hemlet and Hornet) after the race do nothing to help anyone's opinions on this as to whether he deserved what he got on the track, and subsequently afterwards, which he was lucky to just get some FIA community service.

 

It was Max that decided to make it a fight, imo. Agree that Ocon should've pulled out by T2, but Max pointlessly defended into 1 and then took a very aggressive line through 2, he couldve avoided the incident twice, but pushed the issue, even though he knew Ocon was no threat.

 

Yeah, I can certainly see that argument. Someone has commented that the team should have told him Ocon was closing fast and just to let him go as his battle was with Lewis only, that I would agree with. I think most other teams would have told that to their driver in a similar scenario.

 

As I think you'll probably have guessed, ASC; I agree with BErn here.
Firstly, it was quite reasonable for Ocon not to expect any resistance – but for the possible exception mentioned earlier in the thread (also by BErn) that a certain ego might see common sense as some sort of weakness. In fact it could be argued that MV's less than ideal positioning on approach to T1, was actually a sign of intent to cede the corner in the safest manner and with minimal loss of lap-time, thereby finally (it had been clear to all concerned that for at least a whole lap, MV had been and still was slower) inviting Ocon to "get on with it please; pass now and leave me alone".

I do not think there is another driver on the F1 grid, including this year's novices and all the youngsters – or indeed, drivers in most other classes of motorsport – who would attempt to fight off a briefly quicker back-marker when comfortably ahead and pulling away from the closest real challenger, especially if actually in the lead on the world's biggest stage! In virtually every scenario, there is absolutely no point. The fact that any such pass would likely be short-lived (probably three or four laps only) is irrelevant. Ocon, like every other driver*, is trying to complete the race distance in the shortest possible time, and could certainly benefit from it if Lady Luck gets involved; and although it rarely occurs in F1, any such driver is entitled to attempt to pass.

The judgement that Ocon 'interfered' with the race leader came about for one reason only: Verstappen attempted to defend it! That is why I was disgusted at Ocon being handed a penalty. Furthermore, it is quite clear that Verstappen either totally ignores Ocon's position in T2 or deliberately chops him to force him take avoiding action by driving off the track (he was already half on the kerb at this point).

In my view, Ocon was innocent. He was the aggrieved party. And according to Horner's tactless rationale, he'd have been justified in pushing and shoving (or more) MV at the weigh-in.

- - -o0o- - -​

*Verstappen lifting off would have been the safest way for him to complete the race in the shortest time.

 

All that mattered to Verstappen was not being passed in that moment, and it cost him the win. Two things can happen from here. He can take this lesson and use it in the future to help him become a better racer, or he can ignore it and continue to be a liability that has no chance of winning a title. I suspect the latter.

Ocon was hard done by in all this. Yes he had some fault in the crash, but certainly no more than Mad max.

 

I actually think Mark would be a good option. He is one of few around the track who has taken the time to consider the incident in Brazil. Never watched his videos before but did this time.

 

I watch them some good some not so good , overall though most are good and very interesting imho .