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Official Pre Season Testing 2022 - BAHRAIN

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by ched999uk, Mar 2, 2022.

  1. push

    push Active Member

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    Just wait, last 10 seconds of Q3 next week. BANG Hamilton on poll with George a close second.
     
    #101
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  2. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Quite possibly... But at some point, they're going to no longer be up there. It's just a matter of time. Maybe this is that time.
     
    #102
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  3. moreinjuredthanowen

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    The merc looks a bit of a dog right now. Dunno where it's at.

    The thing is understeerihg then snap oversteer kicks in, the thing was whiplashing Russell there.

    It wasn't that bad in conventional body shape.

    The floor is too flexible.

    Ferrari looks better now for same issue but are the compr9mising ride height to do it?

    I can't tell who is really quick but there's a few stable cars out there
     
    #103
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  4. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Mad max throws in 2 purples and a bouncy enough middle sector to that fastest in the piss in a wall contest.

    Russell only a second back despite horrid handling.

    Davidon and Ted state red bull then ferrari, then merc. Don't think anyone can call this so much.

    I do think the cars with less extreme body shapes are seeing less flexing

    Roll on the race!
     
    #104
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  5. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Nothing lasts forever .
     
    #105
  6. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    Question folks- do you actually believe there is a clear backmarker?

    I think what we might find- and actually in a more restricted formula it makes complete sense- is that there might be a much smaller window of performance difference between first and last.

    I think what we’ve seen is a couple of teams who are further ahead on getting a a handle on the issues the new formula creates, but that from the soft tyres runs at night there are what look to be really respectable laps from Alfa Romeo, Haas, Aston- all of whom experts think are 5th or lower.

    What you might see is a not much above 1 second covering the field in quali and actually the people who thrive in race set up those who are smoother and have better porpoise control.

    Any thoughts?
     
    #106
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  7. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    I've not been able to see a single minute of testing, so it's really difficult to really have an opinion.... But from times and what I have read, I'm struggling to form any kind of opinion on anything. And where we stand next week may be completely different to where we stand come summer.
     
    #107
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  8. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Obviously still very hard to tell, but I'd be surprised if the field spread is as tight as that, usually the gaps open up when there's new regulations, and close over time. I'm not sure the running we've seen rules that pattern out.

    I think Haas, Williams and Alpha Romeo (usual suspects to be a backmarker) have had good tests, minus shipping problems and the occasional fire. They've got a good amount of running in, and I don't think they've been sandbagging much. I still expect at least 2 of them to be in the bottom 3 teams, but in any order and that might be race-dependent. So perhaps no clear backmarker as yet!

    Poorer running for Mclaren, Mercedes, Aston probably makes them look weaker than they'll end up being, which makes the first 3 teams mentioned look closer to the midfield pack.
     
    #108
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  9. Mark Blow

    Mark Blow Well-Known Member

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    Reading Benson article on the BBC website he posted the fastest times by each team:

    Best lap times by each team in Bahrain

    Red Bull (Max Verstappen) 1:31.720 C5 tyre

    Ferrari (Charles Leclerc) 1:32.415 C4

    Alpine (Fernando Alonso) 1:32.698 C5

    Mercedes (George Russell) 1:32.759 C4

    Alfa Romeo (Valtteri Bottas) 1:32.985 C3

    Alpha Tauri (Yuki Tsunoda) 1:33.002 C4

    Haas (Mick Schumacher) 1:33.151 C3 *

    Aston Martin (Sebastian Vettel) 1:33.821 C4

    Williams (Alex Albon) 1:35.171 C3

    * Schumacher set a 1:32.241 in extra running allocated to his team because of freight delays, held in faster conditions at the end of the final day

    C5 tyre is softest and theoretically fastest over one lap, C1 hardest

    Interesting to see that Mercedes for all their issues were less than 4/10th’s behind Ferrari. Not that it proves much with Alpine sandwiched between them.
     
    #109
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  10. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    Bottas time on the C3 looked solid on face value doesn’t it.

    Those times are why I think the teams are potentially much closer together than in years gone by.

    Remember as well that, assuming Renault and Ferrari have done good jobs - the PU freeze should mean that there is a real close convergence on power now, and the significant steps forward from Haas and Alfa (on paper at least) end to back that up.

    This could actually be nuts for the first few races.
     
    #110

  11. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    From what I can gather the porpoising/bouncing is down to the airflow stalling due to the floor getting too low to the track surface.
    Anyone know if the teams could just add titanium skid blocks so the floor can never get too low?
     
    #111
  12. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    My fluid dynamics is a bit rusty, but I think the problem is that the "ground effect" they're looking for from the floor gets stronger the closer they run the floor to the ground (Bernoulli principle). So they want to run as low (and smoothly) as possible, so skid blocks would just bounce the car back up as the suspension loads up, having the same effect as the floor itself hitting the floor/bumps.

    I think Ferrari tried to solve their porpoising with rigid rods from the edge of the floor to the main body of the car, to prevent the ends of the floor from bending down to contact the floor.
     
    #112
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  13. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Will Buxton's order:

    1. Red Bull
    2. Ferrari
    3. Mercedes
    4. Mclaren
    5. Alfa Romeo
    6. Haas
    7. Alpha Tauri
    8. Alpine
    9. Aston Martin
    10. Williams
    Caveat is that Mclaren in particular look quick but the reliability might not be there. Could qualify high and DNF.


    Last year he predicted:

    RBR, Merc, McLaren, Alpha T, Ferrari, Aston, Alpine, Alfa R, Williams, Haas

    Which was certainly close for the first half of the season.
     
    #113
  14. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    I really don't think we can read too much into this weeks testing. Sure there are problems, many cars seem to have some understeering and the porpoising seems not to be fully resolved. The teams are focused on many other areas of reliability. Merc i would imagine are very focused on heat and the performance of the new cooling system, repackaging of the electronics in a way that they are not damaged. I am sure. Knowing how much power the teams are using they can estimate their top speed. The cornering is a definite concern for some I suspect. I think they will get to grips with the porpoising, more or less within the first few races.

    This time next week we will have a clearer idea, I am not going to second guess but I think there will be a surprise next saturday.
    22 races this year plus 3 sprints, there is time to develop.

    What is your wish list for WDC and CC this year?

    WDC = would like to see Lewis get that 8th but in the absence of that would like Daniel to be the WDC, just to see if the grin could get wider but recognise that is unlikely. Would also love to see Charles or Lando otherwise.

    CC = My wish would be Ferrari or McLaren.
     
    #114
  15. moreinjuredthanowen

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    If cars are close.look to the calibre of drivers.

    However... imo these teams cannot afford to run engines as hot as the big teams and cannot afford the premier parts so I fully expect a good gap between teams.

    So.

    1. Haas. Sorry bur this team has some pretty average drivers in f1 terms. They'll be out the back.

    2 Williams. Again latifi? I'd like the Williams ro turn up with minimal side pods etc and zoom up the grid but I don't think it's happening until later in the season if this year.

    I think the above list has been really harsh on Aston Martin. I Dont think they've taken to covers off yet in terms of pace.

    The three Als won't be split by much imo.
     
    #115
  16. moreinjuredthanowen

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    There's still a plank under the cars.

    You.cant add stuff that'll destroy every track over a weekend.

    They have to fix the floors/ suspension

    What I see is too much downfoce at the back end for the suspension and then some flexing on top.

    The cars with the widest exposed floors are worst.

    The 18" tyres and low profile were one of my unknowns and I really don't think anyone has really grasped the implications yet.

    The hards.looked impossible to get warmed up and grippy. The low profile is forcing more suspension travel.

    The teams.will change rear suspensions imo to resolve some of this porpoising
     
    #116
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  17. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    I think Latifi was already contracted for this year , I doubt he will be there next year esp as Doritos have said the team no longer has to have pay drivers , mind you how true that is , is anybody's guess .
     
    #117
  18. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    Just out of interest- is it McLaren and Red Bull who both have the pull rod front suspension and push rod rear?


    Interesting that they appear to be the teams with a better control and handling of porpoising. For those of you with any technical knowledge- is that potentially related?
     
    #118
  19. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Pure guess but could the heave spring be more resistant to both sides push rods pushing in at once as the body pushes down?

    Could that be better than pull rod set up to still allow riding of kerbs and Bumps on the one side but when the load comes on the push rod set up resists more??

    I dunno really someone will explain it.
     
    #119
  20. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    From the very little I know push rod is usually beneficial at the front for aero purposes so the decision to use pull rod at the front has to be considered to be giving other advantages. Working in opposite maybe they balance the car better, two opposites cancelling each other perhaps, which I guess is your thought process.
     
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