Officials’ Gift Tracker, 2015-2016

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by redwhiteandermblue, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. redwhiteandermblue

    redwhiteandermblue Well-Known Member

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    Here’s a crack at keeping a running tally. I’m open to persuasion (and for that matter bribery:emoticon-0164-cash:;)) but please be advised this is a kangaroo court in which I’m the (hanging) judge and jury.

    Everyone: have I missed any wrong decisions that would have affected outcomes, or failed to keep a fair tally in other ways? Depending on how this goes, I may just limit the gift tracker to the top six or so as I’m unlikely to watch other games.

    THROUGH WEEK 7:

    Man U +5
    Liverpool +3
    Chelsea +2
    West Brom +2
    Arsenal +1
    Aston Villa -1
    West Ham -1
    Palace -1
    Sunderland -1
    Southampton -2
    Bournemouth -3

    SUMMARY:

    Week 9: "Southampton's first goal was offside, so their draw should go to Leicester.
    West Brom's goal against Sunderland was at least two fouls, if not also a handball, so the 1-0 should become a 0-0." PNP's quote

    Week 7: Three goals that should have been disallowed would not have affected Spurs win against City. There aren’t any other gifts I’m aware of.

    Week 6: Man U’s first goal in a 3-2 win versus Southampton was offsides. Southampton should have had a pen. So the officials gave Man U all three points that should have been Southampton’s. Diego Costa should have been sent off versus Arsenal for a slap to the face. It seems to me a 10 vs. 10 game was likeliest to end in a draw, so I say Chelsea got a two point gift.

    Week 4-5: No gifts I saw.

    Week 3: The refs had a good week, or a lucky one. Two razor thin offsides calls were correct and a confusing foulfest in Spurs’ box seems not to have been a pen by rule.

    Week 2: Liverpool got a wrongly allowed goal from Bentecke. Bournemouth had a legitimate goal chalked off and got the short end of a number of other decisions.

    Coquelin should have been sent off for a second yellow card for a clear pullback of a player on his way to racing past him. Without Coquelin, it’s unlikely Arsenal would have gotten the winner.

    I didn’t see it, but BlueandWhite says Kasper should have been sent off before Leicester scored the winner against West Ham.

    I also didn’t see it, but PNP says Aston Villa were denied a clear pen against Man U.

    Week 1: No wrong calls affecting points, I think.

    PROCEDURES, CAVEATS, ETC. (ALSO DEBATABLE)

    The idea is to post when you think officials have gifted teams points. Ideally, posters will either name the number of points the officials have gifted a particular team, and why you think that is, or discuss someone else’s opinion. The idea is to have some sort of record of how officials’ bad decisions affect teams’ fortunes this year.

    *** Incidentally, to avoid what I’ve found to be rather tiresome rehashing of certain points. I think everyone understands:

    Opinions are subjective (but debates on substance, in other words whether decisions are right or wrong, and how corrected calls would have affected outcomes, are welcome)
    We’ll all tend to have our club lenses on
    The Time Machine thing--you can only say, at best, what seems the most likely outcome if a decision were corrected. It may very well be that Arsenal would have scored with ten men, likelier that Palace would have grabbed the winner, but likeliest, IMO, it would have ended 1-1.
     
    #1
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  2. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Palace are probably even, to be fair. The Cameron Jerome goal that was disallowed would've leveled it up.
    Would Norwich have pushed on so much in injury time? I'm going to say no.

    Villa should've had a penalty against Utd.
     
    #2
  3. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy

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    You keeping some kind of alternate table RWAB?

    Would be fun and very interesting.

    As you say it's all subjective.
     
    #3
  4. redwhiteandermblue

    redwhiteandermblue Well-Known Member

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    That’s the idea, I think. I’m hesitating because I’m not sure if I want to commit the time it would need.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  5. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy

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    well for example in your alternative table Liverpool would be on 3 points, with the match having been won 1-0 by Bournemouth.

    The factors behind this:
    A wrongly disallowed goal for Bournemouth.
    A wrongly allowed goal for Liverpool.

    What could have happened is irrelevant, as we don't know. It's possible it could have finished 3-1 to Liverpool due to them throwing the kitchen sink at Bournemouth having gone 1-0 down. This didn't happen though. But them two big calls mentioned above did happen and they were judged incorrectly it seems according to the laws of the game.
     
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  6. Boss

    Boss Son of Pulis

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    Vimhawk will love this thread.
     
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    vimhawk likes this.
  7. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    Mmmmmmm.
     
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  8. Blue and White

    Blue and White Well-Known Member

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    Love this idea and a table would be great but too difficult I guess once we have different opinions.

    Would West Ham have got a point against Leicester had Kasper been sent off.

    And with Kasper playing so well in his next game-would that help Leicester again. (similarly , if Coquelin had a suspension, would that affect their next game?)
     
    #8
  9. redwhiteandermblue

    redwhiteandermblue Well-Known Member

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    I agree it's difficult to try to do this in some kind of consistent and fair-ish way. Sendings off are particularly problematic, as you say. Maybe take a conservative view, and say that in most cases, a sending off wouldn't cause a team to drop points, but that they would be very unlikely to win them, if they did, after a player should have been sent off but wasn't. So by this standard, West Ham were given one point, and Arsenal two. I'd also forget about the knock-on effects of players who should have been suspended, just because it opens up a can of worms.

    I have an easier time with wrong decisions about pens and goals. I'd say the goal decisions should be corrected, the pens assumed to be successful, and nothing else changed.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  10. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    Hmmm, I wouldn't be so sure. <whistle>
     
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  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I'm sure that Craig Pawson would defend his own performance and he's clearly a Liverpool fan.
     
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  12. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    <laugh>
     
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  13. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    So he expects to be acquitted on grounds of insanity?
     
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  14. redwhiteandermblue

    redwhiteandermblue Well-Known Member

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    Please see the OP, now and in the future, for my effort to keep a running tally. I’m not sure I’ll keep it going all year, but tend to think I will. Feedback and (attempts at) corrections are more than welcome, but at least for the moment the tally is arrived at via enlightened <whistle> despotism rather than democratic process (or my own personal favorite, competitive bribery), though voting on decisions might be fun to try eventually.
     
    #14
  15. redwhiteandermblue

    redwhiteandermblue Well-Known Member

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    I don’ t know what to make of Leicester’s penalty shout against us because I’ve never seen anything like it: both players tugged each other’s shirts. Then Vertonghen fouled him, I think, though I didn’t have much of a view of it. The announcer, for what it’s worth, said, "The shirt pulls cancel out, and Vertonghen took out his pivot foot" so it should have been a pen. I guess that’s as reasonable an opinion as any.
     
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  16. perrymanlegend

    perrymanlegend Well-Known Member

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    Think Newcastle should buy the lino a beer - I personally think that Rooney was just onside (not by much but enough)
    Having said that the entire Newcastle backline stopped when the flag went up so no guarantee that he would have scored.
     
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  17. redwhiteandermblue

    redwhiteandermblue Well-Known Member

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    So in week three, of results I’m aware of, Liverpool get another point from the officials with Arsenal losing two. I didn’t see it, but I guess Newcastle got a point and Man U lost two for a Man U goal wrongly ruled offsides. For the moment I’m inclined to say Spurs got one and Leicester lost two, though I’m waiting for somebody to have a convincing argument on whether that pen should have been granted. Anybody else? Did Bournemouth get a (well-deserved) gift?
     
    #17
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
  18. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy

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    Was it Vertognen's fault for that potential pen? If so then it probably was a pen. He's a dirty overrated basterd who doesn't know how average he is.
     
    #18
  19. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    The Arsenal goal should have been allowed but I thought there was a definite penalty denied for Liverpool in the second half.
     
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  20. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

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    I thought the pen was just 50-50. They were both tugging away at each other's shirts, that appears to be what the Ref saw, and he let it go at that...

    But yeah, he goes missing too much for my liking!...
     
    #20

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