1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic Ospreys, Wales & BIL

Discussion in 'Swansea City' started by Taffvalerowdy, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. daimungeezer

    daimungeezer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2013
    Messages:
    8,686
    Likes Received:
    14,881
    They surely have to act now, don't they?
     
    #2801
  2. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
  3. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
    Knowing Phillips as I do, I wouldn’t bet on it …
     
    #2803
    glamexile and daimungeezer like this.
  4. daimungeezer

    daimungeezer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2013
    Messages:
    8,686
    Likes Received:
    14,881
    If so there's a lot more hurt to come. The fact Pivac doesn't realise it's not working speaks volumes.

    In other news, Scotland have made really hard work of it!
     
    #2804
  5. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
    Gatland 12 months contract?
     
    #2805
    daimungeezer likes this.
  6. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
    12-0 NZ lead England after 9 mins …
     
    #2806
  7. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
    Plus the extras …
     
    #2807
  8. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
  9. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
    Great fight back by England <cheers>
     
    #2809
    daimungeezer likes this.
  10. LIBERTARIAN

    LIBERTARIAN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2013
    Messages:
    14,647
    Likes Received:
    19,711
    There's NEVER anything " great " about England. <laugh>
     
    #2810
    Taffvalerowdy likes this.

  11. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
  12. daimungeezer

    daimungeezer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2013
    Messages:
    8,686
    Likes Received:
    14,881
    The yellow turned the game.

    And Ireland win again. Oh for a good coaching team :(
     
    #2812
    Taffvalerowdy likes this.
  13. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
    #2813
    daimungeezer likes this.
  14. daimungeezer

    daimungeezer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2013
    Messages:
    8,686
    Likes Received:
    14,881
    It seems the fans and media are clamouring for Pivac to go. Even though the WRU needs an overhaul, this is still the obvious and right thing to happen now.
     
    #2814
  15. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
    Pivac has lost eight out of 11 Test matches this year…….
     
    #2815
    daimungeezer and glamexile like this.
  16. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
    Abject Wales lack direction and desire – Georgia defeat spells return to their darkest days

    Steve James

    Sunday November 20 2022, 1.30pm, The Times

    Wales have experienced some horribly dark days in Cardiff over the years. Think of defeats to the likes of Romania (1988), Western Samoa (1991), Canada (1993) and Samoa (1999 & 2012), and then add this as a worthy addition to that ledger of infamy. Maybe put it right at the top. It was that bad.

    Of course, one side’s dejection is always the other’s elation, and Georgia should be duly fêted for this first away victory over a Tier One team, adding to their home win over Italy last summer. Their cries for some sort of crack at the Six Nations have now reached ear-splitting levels. And good on them.

    For all the talk of their game having expanded, it was rather reassuring that it was their famed scrummage that eventually secured this stunning success, at the end totally obliterating Wales’s inadequate reserve front row of Rhodri Jones, Bradley Roberts and Sam Wainwright.

    Georgia also possess a canny scrum half in Vasil Lobzhanidze, while 20-year-old full back Davit Niniashvili is clearly a huge talent, and the team’s celebrations at the game’s conclusion were a heart-warming and wonderful confirmation of rugby’s further-reaching improvements.

    But the truth is that the real story is how utterly abject Wales were. Inexplicably, they did not score a point after the 24th minute of the match. Missing key leaders like Dan Biggar and Alun Wyn Jones (and why then was hooker Ken Owens taken off after 68 minutes?), they looked like a side that was lost, lacking both direction and desire. Dare it be said, they looked like a side that was not playing for their coach, or at least one that has lost confidence in the way their coach is asking them to play.

    The pressure truly is on head coach Wayne Pivac. His side has now lost at home to both Italy and Georgia in the space of eight months. To suffer one catastrophe may be regarded as a misfortune, and all that.

    Wales have won only three of their 11 matches this year, and only 13 of the 33 Tests since Pivac took over from Warren Gatland. Delving deeper, in 25 matches against opposition ranked in the top ten in the world, Pivac has won only seven Tests, with three of them coming when the opposition received red cards, while one against England involved some bizarre refereeing decisions and another against South Africa last summer — a first ever away from home — was against an under-strength side.

    It is chillingly grim stuff, for which Covid can only take so much of the blame, when only three of ten matches were won in 2020 (one of them against Georgia and two against Italy).

    The Six Nations title in 2021, so nearly a grand slam, came attached to much good fortune, and so began a pattern of Pivac and his side bouncing back when appearing under the sharpest scrutiny. They did so when responding to the Italy loss with that victory in South Africa last summer, and again recently with a gutsy win over Argentina as harsh questions were being asked about being outmuscled and outwitted by New Zealand.

    It is a reactionary process that Pivac, when asked how he would turn things around in time for Australia this weekend, admitted, almost wearily, must start again now.

    “We’ve done it before,” he said. “Unfortunately, we’ve had to do it one time too many from my point of view. It is not a nice place to be.”

    But will even an unexpected victory and another spirited response to adversity be enough this time? Will the Welsh Rugby Union decide that change must be made now, if Wales are not to flop at next year’s World Cup (where they are in the same Pool as Georgia!)?

    “That’s a question for other people, I would guess,” said Pivac.

    Champions South Africa have showed that late change — 18 months out from the 2019 World Cup — can bring rewards, but Wales’s first match in France next year is on September 10. Is it too late? Or is it worth recalling how quickly Gatland (albeit with a much more promising squad) turned things around with a grand slam in 2008 after the ignominious exit from the 2007 World Cup by Fiji?

    As ever with such decisions, a suitable replacement must be sought and found in a short period of time, while expensive pay offs would need to be negotiated (Pivac’s contract runs to the end of the World Cup).

    If he is to keep his job, Pivac will certainly need to be a lot more convincing to his bosses about his plans and ideas than that which has been revealed in public, because his selections and modus operandi on the field (the promised ambition in attack has long since disappeared) have often been about as clear as mud.

    In fairness it can also be asked whether Pivac should be made a scapegoat for a nation’s rugby that is in a royal mess from top to bottom. The four regions are struggling both on and off the field and are still in disagreement with the WRU over their financial allocations. And the recent decision not to allow the appointment of an independent chair of the WRU was further evidence of governance stuck in a long-gone age.

    As our very own Sam Warburton said on Amazon Prime after the match, “It’s easy for us to look at the situations on the pitch and what happened: which high ball did we lose? Which scrum went backwards? Which critical moment did we get wrong? The problems are way deeper than that.

    “There are people with best intentions who have been brilliant in supporting the community game and should definitely have a place. But it shouldn’t have a place in deciding what happens to a £100 million turnover company. We are trying to win a Rugby World Cup. It’s an old structure that’s been in place for a long time that doesn’t suit modern rugby whatsoever. That has to change.”

    Indeed, much has to change, possibly starting with a new head coach, if Wales are to avoid more humiliating days like this.

    Wales’s darkest days
    In Cardiff:
    Wales 9 Romania 15, 1988 John Ryan was head coach for this match, for whom the Wales team wore black armbands against Georgia after his sad passing last week, and like the Georgia defeat this was evidence of much wider issues. A shambolic day in all respects — the wrong Romanian anthem was played before the match — led star fly half Jonathan Davies to leave the union game altogether, signing for Widnes in rugby league soon afterwards.

    Wales 13 Western Samoa 16, 1991 “Thank goodness we weren’t playing all of Samoa!” was the joke doing the rounds in Wales after this, but this was a huge World Cup shock after To’o Vaega had been awarded a controversial try. Wales fared little better against the whole of Samoa at the 1999 World Cup either (under Graham Henry) or under Warren Gatland in 2012, a defeat ranked on Saturday by current Wales captain Justin Tipuric as worse than this Georgia loss.

    Away from Cardiff:
    Australia 63 Wales 6, 1991 This was a disgrace in Brisbane both on and off the field, as Wales’ players ended up fighting among themselves at the post-match function. Head coach Ron Waldron resigned.

    South Africa 96 Wales 13, 1998 Beset by some 18 withdrawals from the trip and the usual administrative and structural turmoil back home — Dennis John was caretaker coach — it would have been 100 points had the Springbok hooker Naka Drotske not dropped a pass right at the death. “Wales were one of the weakest international sides I have ever seen,” the South Africa coach Nick Mallett said.

    Wales 34 Fiji 38, 2007 A wonderfully entertaining see-sawing match in Nantes, but one that sensationally knocked Wales out of the World Cup. Head coach Gareth Jenkins was sacked the next morning.
     
    #2816
    daimungeezer likes this.
  17. Taffvalerowdy

    Taffvalerowdy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    125,907
    Likes Received:
    224,120
    Stone Age Welsh game needs cut-throat reforms – but I know it won’t happen

    Farcical parochialism is holding us back and we badly need top business minds to enact seismic changes
    The game in Wales needs the biggest reform in its history if there are not to be repeats of the unacceptable defeat by Georgia last Saturday. This situation has been brewing for some time both on and off the field. The system is just not working. The whole thing needs to be wiped clean and a fresh start made. Sadly, I know it won’t happen. I know I will say these things and we will be in the same situation in 12 months.

    I genuinely want the best for Welsh rugby. I am a Cardiff boy but if the Scarlets ended up winning the European Cup I would be over the moon. It would be amazing for Welsh rugby. I want everyone in Wales to succeed. I would never let any bias towards Cardiff hinder my decision-making and that, unfortunately, is one of the problems in Welsh rugby: there is too much parochialism.

    And the amateur game still has way too much say. Of the 12 directors on the Welsh Rugby Union’s board, there are eight community members. That is like having eight people on the board of a company that are contributing to just one part of the business. It’s just way too many. There should be one community member on that board. The community game is hugely important, of course it is, and most of the people involved are well-intentioned, but it should not have eight representatives on the board of a company with a turnover of £100 million. It is farcical.

    It is a governance structure that is stuck in the Stone Age. Unless that changes, very little else will change.

    I know a number of top business people who would love to help Welsh rugby — there is still huge passion for the game in all areas, I think, but they are just not interested at the moment because of the company structure. Some hugely capable people have already left recently for that very reason. They know that the changes required will never be made while the community game still has such an influence.

    You need high-level people from the various sectors of finance, marketing and performance on that board and they need to make some savvy, strategic and potentially cut-throat decisions.

    The goal has to be for a region to win the European Cup and for Wales to win the World Cup. They have to be the main priorities and then you can look at everything flowing down from that, from the academies down to the grass roots.

    Do those people on the board at the moment know how an elite academy should be run? Do they know what an elite performance environment looks like at men’s, women’s sevens or under-20s levels? Do they know what level of expertise is required in staffing the regions?

    The player pathway has been failing for some time now. Look at how Josh Adams had to go to Worcester to make his name and then had to be brought back to Wales. Three of our most promising young players right now are all playing in England: Louis Rees-Zammit at Gloucester, and Christ Tshiunza and Dafydd Jenkins at Exeter Chiefs. It is quite alarming.

    Why have all these boys crossed the border? What are we not doing in Wales to keep these players? I don’t profess to know the answers but it looks like the problems at academy level are now being manifested in the national team.

    I know there are big scholarships being offered by English schools but that has always been the case. I didn’t want to leave Wales. I remember Justin Burnell, who was in charge of the Cardiff Blues academy, sitting me down and telling me everything I wanted to hear: that they wanted to mould me into the next Richie McCaw, that they had a definite plan in place for me, with a range of targets to hit at different ages. They supported me from the age of 15, whether that was in terms of finance, training, nutrition or anything else. The attention I got was fantastic. They were constantly watching all my games. It was the level of detail that made me feel valued and that was the reason why I wanted to stay in Wales. I’m not sure if that is happening now.

    The regions and the WRU are at loggerheads. I have heard that the financial deal being offered by the WRU is nowhere near what the regions want. They do not feel that it can make them competitive at all, mainly because they are still in debt after Covid. In that 2020-21 season the regions were due to be paid a total of £26 million, and the WRU only paid them £3 million, so a £20 million loan was negotiated with the Welsh Government, which the regions have to pay back, and they cannot afford to do so. As a result of all this, the regions are not able to negotiate player contracts for next season at the moment, which is probably playing on players’ minds.

    It is such a mess. There is little trust on either side. I don’t think the WRU trust the regions with their money and then the regions don’t want to be owned by the WRU because their governance is so old fashioned and they do not trust their decisions.

    I really do fear for Wales in the next five years. They are simply not going to have the pool of players to compete, especially once the core of experienced players retire.

    When I was in the Wales coaching set up a couple of years ago and I was looking beyond the players I played with, such as George North, Taulupe Faletau, Justin Tipuric, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate and Dan Biggar, there was obviously a lot of talent but there was nowhere near as much as there once was. Yes, the likes of Rees-Zammit, Tshiunza, Jenkins and Jac Morgan will be great players, but you put that alongside the depth in the squads of France, Ireland and England and there is no comparison. That was proved with how the game finished on Saturday. That front five was so inexperienced. It was no wonder that the scrum was trounced.

    I know that some of my comments on Amazon Prime after the match have caused a bit of a stir. And the first thing I want to say is that I have been that player. We lost to Samoa in 2012. We were trying our best. We were not being negligent. So, I don’t want to attack anyone personally. Everyone is trying hard. Everyone is human and has feelings. It is a privileged position to be involved in international sport, but it can also be a horribly pressurised and suffocating position when things are going badly. It is important that you still give people respect.

    I said this on Amazon Prime: “I wonder if there must be some kind of deeper, underlying issues. The players — why aren’t they motivated? Why aren’t they desperate? I don’t know what the answer is. I’m not challenging the players. There are some tough, great competitors out there, some of the best players I have ever played with. But, for some reason, it’s not translating on to the pitch and there’s something that we perhaps don’t know, which is why they are perhaps not fully motivated at the moment.”

    What I meant there was that there could be a few reasons why the performance was so lacklustre. Maybe you have got the training week wrong and have worked the players too hard. That certainly happened when I was playing, and we were very flat. That is the coaches’ mistake.

    Another reason might be getting the tactics totally wrong. That lies with both players and coaches.

    Or it might just be lack of technical ability and that lack of depth in the squad that I have mentioned or, lastly, of course, it could be lack of motivation. And that does happen. I thought we saw it in the Gallagher Premiership last season when Bath’s players seemed to be making a statement that they wanted change. It may not necessarily be the coach they want out, it could be anyone in the environment.

    But when I saw that Wales performance on Saturday there was obviously something that was badly wrong. Only those in the camp will know what. I can only guess.

    I’ve always thought the hardest job for a coach is to get the players to run through brick walls for them. I think of coaches like Andy Farrell, Shaun Edwards, Warren Gatland, Danny Wilson and Steve Borthwick to name just a few, and I would do anything for them.

    I have seen these current Wales coaches in action. I like Jonathan Humphreys as a forwards coach. He talks about the players being brutal in contact and being physically dominant, but I’m just not sure that he has the players to deliver what he wants. I feel sorry for him. I would never look at the scrummage and think he is not coaching them properly.

    I have always thought that Gethin Jenkins was destined to be a top defence coach. Neil Jenkins was obviously coaching when I was playing and everyone knows how good he is.

    There needs to be a very honest review now. If I was in charge at the WRU — and believe me, I am not touting for a job — I would be going around to speak to everyone in the Wales set up and at the regions. I would be saying: “Anonymously, please tell me everything that is good and bad.” It needs to be brutal across the board to find the answers.

    Bizarrely, I think Wales will do well against Australia on Saturday. This Wales side seem to respond to being challenged. They are a resilient bunch.

    But you don’t want to be a team that just peaks emotionally now and then. That is the heroic loser mentality that I always so hated. It is about excellence. It is about creating an environment through winning. It is about saying: “We are not here to take part, we are here to take over.”

    Sadly Wales are miles away from that point right now and only seismic changes can alter that.
     
    #2817
    daimungeezer likes this.
  18. daimungeezer

    daimungeezer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2013
    Messages:
    8,686
    Likes Received:
    14,881
    I'm a sucker for punishment, so I'm going to watch the Wal v Aus game <doh>

    Not sure what's happened with the team selected. Injuries maybe? Seems a bit odd in places.
     
    #2818
    Makemstine Roger and glamexile like this.
  19. glamexile

    glamexile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    14,229
    Likes Received:
    23,446
    The Principality pitch looking ropey again
     
    #2819
    daimungeezer likes this.
  20. daimungeezer

    daimungeezer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2013
    Messages:
    8,686
    Likes Received:
    14,881
    Someone must have given Pivac a coaching manual as this is pretty good so far <laugh>

    See how much better it can be when you use possession and don't kick it away every time.

    One thing i don't get is winding down the yellow card for Aus instead of a quick tap. Should have scored again before half time.
     
    #2820
    Makemstine Roger likes this.

Share This Page