Place to discuss transgender issues

I have closed the Any Mxs thread now, the thread had got really unappealing and to be quite straight, offensive.
I have opened a new one where we can chat in a sensible manner.


I should point out that this is a football forum, but I am happy to discuss what I understand of the issues, which is limited. I do have 3 transgender friends and I must say another great mate whose kid is transitioning. But I have never walked a step in their shoes.

Now if this is not an issue we want to discuss, and as implied above ...why would we?
This thread will just disappear off the top pages and be gone.
If there are things people want to discuss SENSIBLY, then we can do it here

 

there was always the option that if you don't like certain threads don't go on them
or complain about them and get them closed
any other topics that need to be run past will first

 

Controversy brewing over transgender children's access to puberty blockers
Controversy brewing over transgender children's access to puberty blockers with some saying they're lifesavers while others argue they're too easily available, not safe or reversible. Credits: Newshub

The mother of a transgender child says the sheer numbers of transgender children getting puberty blockers could end up as the biggest scandal in our medical history.

Like their name suggests, they're taken to temporarily halt the onset of puberty, often by kids weighing up whether to transition from one gender to another.

But critics say the medical profession is far too ready to offer puberty blockers and they dispute the Ministry of Health's claims they're safe and reversible.

However one expert who works with transgender children says the drugs are actually lifesavers.

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When they saw her body at birth, Mindy's parents thought she was a boy - but as far back as Mindy can remember, she knew she was in the wrong body.

"Completely strongly, I don't have any doubts at all," she says.

She transitioned socially to being a girl when she was eight and has been taking puberty blockers since she was ten, an injection every three months.

"They've been incredibly important. Without them I wouldn't be in the mental state that I am now."

Now after a legal fight, even her birth certificate shows she's a girl and she says she's noticed no side effects.

"I need medical treatment to make sure that I am a normal teenager but that's ok it just let me be who I am," she says.

Puberty blockers can be given to children up to the age of sixteen who display what's called 'gender dysphoria'. They feel they're in the wrong body, and while they decide, the drugs pause the onset of adult characteristics.

"My voice hasn't deepened," Mindy says. "It just keeps me from turning into what I don't want to be."

Mindy says puberty blockers have been "incredibly important". Photo credit: Newshub
Later, they can be prescribed sex-change hormones and the vast majority who've taken puberty blockers go on to take them.

But one mother of a transgender child says more research needs to be done about the long-term effects of puberty blockers.

"Well it could end up being the biggest scandal in our medical history if this treatment continues without valid research that actually says this is an effective way to treat the distress in these children," she says.

Mindy told Newshub she went to several psychologists before being prescribed puberty blockers.

But this mum's child, while they didn't take puberty blockers until they were 16, was offered the option almost straight away.

"The doctor had met my child on that day and within ten minutes had offered puberty blockers," the mother says.

She fully supports her transgender child. It's the medical profession she questions.

"I spend a lot of my time shaking my head and at times I feel I'm in some weird dystopian future so yeah I can't understand," she says.

The mother of a transgender child is concerned about the accessibility of puberty blockers. Photo credit: Newshub
The Ministry of Health maintains puberty blockers are safe and reversible but its British counterpart the NHS doesn't.

It says little is known about the long-term side effects, the psychological effects or how it affects the development of the teenage brain or children's bones.

The issue even ended up in the UK courts, with the Tavistock court case, taken by 23-year-old Keira Bell, who'd de-transitioned. The court's decision makes it more difficult for anyone under sixteen there to go on puberty blockers.

"I'm delighted at the judgement of the court today. It was a judgement that will protect vulnerable people, I wish it had been made for me before I embarked on the devastating experiment of puberty blockers," Bell said following the verdict.

Otago University paediatrician Dame Sue Bagshaw has treated scores of children with gender dysphoria.

"Whenever anything's social it's also political, and that's what I put that down to - is very much some ideology conflicting with what we're trying to do to help these people," she says.

And while these drugs are the same ones used to chemically castrate male sex offenders in other countries, she's not concerned.

"I don't have too much problem because they're reversible. That's the main message I'd love you to get across is that these drugs are reversible," she says.

US paediatrician Dr Julia Mason has a different view.

"They're a very powerful medicine. They act in the brain stem to stop all of the sex-related hormones," Dr Mason tells Newshub.

She worries that confused children are going down rabbit holes online and making rash decisions about their gender.

"And start to see that you know this is the explanation for everything. If I do this it will solve all my problems and they can really become very convinced very quickly if they spend some time online," Dr Mason says.

Dr Mason is concerned most medical professionals simply accept when a child affirms their gender, however young.

"It is internal, it is immutable and it's unchanging and so if a child tells you that they're transgender then you're done. You just have to affirm them. And I do think this is crazy," she says.

Dame Sue disagrees.

"I think a child of 12 or 13 definitely knows their mind. They might not have a mind that agrees with the adult mind but they definitely have a mind," she says.

Dame Sue says puberty blockers give children time and a safe place even if - as she acknowledges - we don't yet know the long-term impact on brain development.

"I'd rather keep them alive so they don't suicide and get into alcohol and other drugs than wait and go 'oh dear we're too late'," she says.

Dame Sue thinks she's saving some of their lives.

"Because they're so intense in their emotions they feel like if they don't get acknowledged life's over, it's not worth living."

British campaigners, however, used the opposite argument when fighting the Tavistock case - that there was evidence girls taking puberty blockers were more suicidal.

"We've got unhappy kids and instead of telling them it gets better we're telling them 'I see that you're unhappy and the doctors are going to fix you. The doctors are going to change your sex, and we can't," Dr Mason says.

The Ministry of Health told Newshub because each person's gender expression is unique it's unable to provide figures on the number of gender transitions and detransitions each year but stands by its advice that puberty blockers are safe and reversible.

Pausing puberty with drugs has been contentious from day one. Some experts say it's safe. Others disagree. The debate will continue, hopefully guided by the best science and what's best for the children.

 

What have I missed, cant say I've ever been on the MX thingy thread. Sounds like it was fun.

 

The cut and paste of certain pictures caused that...not the discussion

 

Heres me thinking the old thread was a typo error, I was gong to advertise my old mongoose BMX

 

So what is your view Kiwi...

Good idea or not?

 

nhs dosent seem to think they are safe

 

which ones

 

Definition of safe really needs discussing. If they are taken correctly they are supposed to be safe (chemically) but psychologically they will possibly really mess up a young person's mind. But there is an opposing argument that without them a young person who thinks they are in the wrong body will become severely depressed.

Many people feel they are a quick and cheap fix, far less expensive than spending a lot of time talking through a person's conceived problems... ensuring that if it is correct for that person, they can be gay if they want without going through changing their chemical balance and undergoing surgery.
But each person is different and working out what is right for everyone is a complex and expensive treatment.

It is a complex subject.
Some people in the NHS do think the Tavistock clinic is a little gung-ho with their treatment.. I do know

 

Same as Bob I never knew what the thread was about.

 

We have a family friend whose 11 year old daughter has said she wants to identify as a boy.

It’s hard to know if she’s rebelling, suffering middle child syndrome - attention seeking or if there is a mental or somehow neurological chemical issue going on.

It might be easy to find amusement in the spectacle of a 6”3” hod carrier, now called Erica with an Adam’s apple and stilettos but I guess the truth is, no one would really chose such a difficult change of life, the potential ridicule, alienation etc unless they were convinced they were born the wrong gender and were rather brave too, I suppose.

 

Hormone blockers have been used by kids for years, some that develop too quickly with no headlines about it, strange that.

 

Ok here’s why part of the reason why stupid uniformed and reactionary posts about trans issues absolutely boils my piss. A while back, a previous partner of mine had a falling out with their child over issues with her current partner. The result of that was I have taken the child, now 15, in and he’s been living with me for coming up to a couple of years and he’s trans and has been living as trans for over four years. Not that it matters he’s not biologically mine, but I’d been having regular contact since the split with his mum years back.

in this two years especially, I have seen the horrific experiences he’s been through, harassment, bullying, violence, further threats of violence. I’ve had to deal with the school, the police, just because people hate trans people. They could leave him alone as he does nothing that affects them but no.

I’ve also been on the lgbt pride committee at work for a few years now and have learned a lot, spoken to and heard experiences, been on Stonewall courses and been involved in representing a couple of lgbt members of staff when incidents at work have happened.

So yeah whilst I can only empathise I have learned and heard a lot, firstly anyone who thinks it’s a choice is a ****ing idiot, each and everybody in the lgbt community has suffered abuse of some kind, a high percentage on a regular basis which means they have to think about where they go, if you’re gay it’s probably wise not to show any affection in public places as it might result in abuse or violence, the media and those that repost the **** they do does only go to undermine the issues and reinforce the prejudices they have. There was a stonewall study I was privy to that showed, on a sample, all of those convicted of lgbt hate crimes were found to post negative ‘stories’ about lgbt on their social media. So yeah I see what damage it does.

if one trans activist puts out a controversial opinion it doesn’t make it news nor does it reflect the trans community, otherwise Jean from number 63 who thinks all darkies should go back to Africa represents the entire pension aged white population of the U.K. does she? Of course ****ing not, people just ignore her. They certainly don’t put it in the paper or on media news feeds using language that associates it with a demographic.

I’ve not mentioned this previously as it doesn’t seem relevant, but thought it now important as people might understand that I live with the outcomes of lgbt prejudice on a regular basis. I know I’ve done some dadding right as he’s a QPR fan.

 

Thank you Will for that.
This is not an issue to laugh at or make crass jokes about, this really really affects people and families.

Nearly every story is different, it takes a lot of love and support to get through it. One of my daughters closest friends started the transition process about 10 years ago... At that time they were a real mess and going nowhere.
And it is not as easy as just popping a couple of pills, there were counselled for a long while, but at each step they were held up...and the abuse they went met from so called friends, and from complete strangers from articles in the press and the media was unbelievable.

It has taken 10 years, but he is at last happy in his skin, and now living his best life. In a way he is lucky, as he looks like a handsome man and so avoids a lot of the random violence that transpeople are subjected too.

I have another friend who is transitioning the opposite way, and she cannot go out at night without fearing for her safety.

I cannot imagine having to live my life under that shadow

 

any other topics you don't want us to post on

 

Thanks Beth. One eye opening experience is the trans day of remembrance. Where the names are said of those who have lost their lives, be that through attack or driven to suicide. In some occasions the only time their name will be read out in public. The numbers are truly horrific considering the size of the trans community.

Sadly transphobia is rife, and large parts of the media perpetuates such a negative narrative and are constantly trying to undermine and the ****ing stupid stories that do the rounds only go to perpetuate this. The memes as well, I hear well it’s only a laugh, well it isn’t so funny when a group of lads from school target your child with this **** all the time, we’ve changed his number they still managed to get it, and with any online presence there is usually a way in. So when anyone shares this crap on social media, just know you’re helping it along the chain to someone who will harass a trans person

 

You started this conversation Kiwi, I thought you wanted to talk about this. I am engaging in the conversation

 

did you engage on the other thread

 

No

Not when you were putting up posts about ButtBabies...no I didn't