Match Day Thread Premier League, Cups & Euro Watch

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by DiogoJotaSuper, Jul 6, 2018.

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Result...

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  1. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Aragones called Henry a racist slur.

    He then called Reyes a different thing in a separate incident.

    4 years later he managed spain to european championship

    No so long ago.

    Bananas thrown at alves?

    What about the ball boys in the ibiza v gijon game abusing a goalkeeper

    And on and on.
     
    #31841
  2. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    I'm not disagreeing with you mate, just saying your approach to deciding guilt is rather limited if you're basing it on countries renowned for it but not for others who aren't.
     
    #31842
  3. moreinjuredthanowen

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    I'm basing it on a rather obviously angry player who was baited by a guy who covered his mouth.

    I'm basing on a club who then subbed him rather than backing him and who then played on like nothing happened and lost the game as well.

    Of an association who rather than balancing the evidence decided to say there was absolutely none and in effect calling said player a liar.

    It was a disgrace the game went ahead, valencia are a disgrace. The ref is a disgrace and the Spanish fa are one too.

    It really is that simple
     
    #31843
  4. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    No mate it really isn't. You're being subjective. Everything you say is true but it's only limited to a country which is renowned for racism in the sport.

    I've asked you a few times and you've not yet answered what your opinion would be if it happens in a country which is not renowned for it. Because it will happen. What are you going to say then?

    We need something universal. Not adhoc approaches factored by the country you're playing in. I'd rather have a system which has the guilty party banged to rights.

    The incident in Spain didn't have anyone covering the mouth btw. Very few incidents of racism on the pitch do.
     
    #31844
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  5. moreinjuredthanowen

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    No, its based on the facts of the case. Everything is subjective, I have explained why I happen to think the spanish FA has done what they have done and why valencia disgracefully put club "honour" above the player. They were even tweeting about it as the game went on and discussing their Honour.

    the resulting decision is absolutely no surprise.

    To deal with your question of countries not renowned for it, well show me one.

    If we thinking england is not seeing this we are fools. for example anton ferdinand was not believed in a court of law so john terry was forgiven by most as a saint. Terry at least got some punishment but it was swept under the carpet then.

    ian wright was abused on line and some court in ireland failed to deal with the child who did it.

    rudiger wasn't backed by anyone at spurs. fans were "warned 3 times" but "zero evidence" meant spurs got zero punishment and again the racists win.

    the same player was given dogs abuse online after lampard was sacked and yet then becomes key under tuchel.


    there is a trend here.

    a trend where police do public hand washing and pretending they investigate. Courts let offenders off. Social media companies do absolutely nothing.

    So imo if a player says something people better start listening and standing up rather than standing by.

    this is why i say valencia were a disgrace to sub their man and go back out on the field. nothing i've said about the spanish authorities and cases is in doubt imo.

    IMO shrugging at it and wringings our hands is only one step about totally ignoring it.
     
    #31845
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  6. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Club World Champions. Boom!
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    Fun topic...<doh>
     
    #31846
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  7. moreinjuredthanowen

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    hows about we invent a funner topic then. what do you expect?
     
    #31847
  8. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    So we should've all just believed Evra then? A prime example of where other factors do come into it and why a subjective approach is nonsensical.

    I also don't understand how you can say we shouldn't wring our hands of it whilst allowing the status quo to continue which is exactly what having NO consistent approach results in.

    I'm also amazed at the same time you're not even willing to consider other options which would clearly prove someone's guilt beyond doubt. And also go a long way to eradicating racism out of the sport.
     
    #31848
  9. moreinjuredthanowen

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    basically he was believed on one side and by authorities. In hindsight 90% of the actions taken by LFc were very poor indeed.

    The point here is that these are not always as cut and dried as you would like. The issue is that its not about a perfect world where all is well and all can sit back and accept that the investigation can be trusted.

    the sad reality is the people being treated shabbily are begin treated this way constantly and the lack of action is what drives anger. when people say criticise lewis hamilton for wearing a t-shirt miss the point, he has privilege but just the same white people saying he should wear a breonna taylor tshirt as its political are seen as maintaining the same oppression.

    It is a fact that people ought to be watching their very best behaviour as to even be accused should be a huge matter, Its almost like we are putting the brugen on the victims and accusers for daring to call it out. I sincerely doubt, as I said, that many will use it to get people in trouble falsely.
     
    #31849
  10. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Club World Champions. Boom!
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    I'll let you know once I figure out a topic you're not an expert in <ok>
     
    #31850
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  11. moreinjuredthanowen

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    I know its tough. I suggest something about fluffy kittens or building a gazebo in your back garden.
     
    #31851
  12. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    I think what that case showed, especially as it's so close to home, is that rivalries play a part and whilst we may feel it's unthinkable for a player to make such an accusation without merit, other things do come into play and the opposing clubs may feel it just as unthinkable that a player would commit such an abuse.

    I want to stress that in the two cases - Kudela and Cala, they imo are guilty. But the problem is that when you have a system where one can be found guilty and the other found innocent, it's a farce. And so, not being a perfect world is no longer a good enough reason for them to be allowed to get away with it. The system needs to change OR changes need to be brought in to the game which means there's no room to hide. It still may not be perfect but it will be a heck of a lot closer to being clear cut. Hence why I am open to the idea of mic'd up players.

    If anyone thinks that all the governing bodies are simply going to take the word of the player being abused and charge and punish the offender need to realise it's never going to happen. And the reasons are obvious. All it does is create further inaction and allows the status quo to continue.

    I agree with everything you've posted all the way through btw, we just differ on how to resolve it <ok>
     
    #31852
  13. moreinjuredthanowen

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    It is a good point that both were treated differently and it is a farce <ok>
     
    #31853
  14. organic red

    organic red Well-Known Member

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    Everton v Spurs tonight.......draw would be nice
     
    #31854
  15. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Everton might lose.dcl is apparently out.

    Won't be an easy game for either side
     
    #31855
  16. sadiosalah

    sadiosalah Active Member

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    Do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    we have to start somewhere. In retrospect as MITO said we were wrong in our dealing of the Evra/Suarez incident. We were crass and stupid in the T shirt action, almost bringing the whole club into disrepute. We were not looking at the big picture then and I think Dalglish never recovered from that incident.

    Every country is at different points on the issue of racism. Some countries are very far behind us just as we are behind some others. That’s why FIFA and UEFA are and will have such a hard time having a unified policy. A Czech minister high up in the government condemned the UEFA punishment saying that even if it were true it was only verbal banter and therefore not meaning much and not deserving of such a ban. He said the whole population of his country felt the same.

    we will achieve consistency at some point in the future but not at the moment. These issues are considered trivial in many leagues and get only UEFA attention in European competitions.
     
    #31856
  17. InBiscanWeTrust

    InBiscanWeTrust Rome, London, Paris, Rome, Istanbul, Madrid
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    Elliott scored for Blackburn tonight (he’s at Blackburn? Who knew...)

    Took his shirt off with a tribute to 96. Nice touch
     
    #31857
  18. THE FOOL

    THE FOOL Well-Known Member

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    Perfect example of why var us a failure.

    Penalty given to Everton, at first look I thought it was, reply obviously wasn't, he kicked the floor.

    Var still give the pen. Absolutely ridiculous

    This is when you want it to intervene, correct the referee, how the actual **** its given is beyond me.
     
    #31858
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  19. sadiosalah

    sadiosalah Active Member

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    Shows that you have to be able to look at all the angles and look at the whole scene. On close up, James seems to kick the ground so no pen. But a few seconds before Reguilon had clearly made contact on him from behind and made him to fall. So penalty that VAR cannot rule out as it wasn’t an obvious error. If the referee hadn’t blown, VAR wouldn’t have overruled either.
     
    #31859
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  20. organic red

    organic red Well-Known Member

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    2-2 FT.................keeps both away from us.....ish
     
    #31860
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