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Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe 2022

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by QuarterMoonII, Jul 3, 2022.

  1. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    I think horse racing (and I count us all under that general term) has what I would call “the Arkle illness”. We forever compare today’s horses against the champions of yesteryear - both on the flat and over obstacles. Whilst it is not, per se, wrong to compare different horses from different generations, the discussions can become tedious. I’m sure we all remember a certain poster from the old 606 days (who shall remain nameless but sounded like sparkle) forever maligning Kauto Star for not being with 2 stone of his hero. Horses are undoubtedly like wine (I’m sitting in Provence writing this) and there are good years, better years and fantastic years. We might do well to remember that a “poor Derby winner” still required plenty of hard work from the yard to get him to Epsom with a chance.

    Yours, in philosophical mood whilst drinking a “listed class / group 3” red wine in Aix <cheers>
     
    #61
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  2. SwanHills

    SwanHills Well-Known Member

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    :emoticon-0100-smile Wise words, Oddy, but it is hard for an old geezer like me to forget the 'golden oldies'. However, I will do my very best in future to modernise myself a bit and enjoy what is on offer, and not worry about Timeform ratings (still pretty good with the Flat, but not so reliable NH-wise - Founder Phil Bull would have nothing to do with NH ratings, and vigorously opposed Timeform getting involved in it)
    <cheers>

    Good night, off to the crash unit a bit early. :emoticon-0113-sleep
     
    #62
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  3. Tamerlo

    Tamerlo Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps we were indeed spoiled by the quality of Arc fields encountered by say Sea Bird, Dancing Brave, Vaguely Noble, etc.
    Thus, fair enough, we have to take what we get.
    What I can’t understand is why so many Group horses and even Classic winners have careers littered with defeats which, in some cases, exceed their wins. That never used to happen.
    When picking a Guineas or Derby winner, you could scrub out the horses with more than two losses total. Not nowadays!
     
    #63
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  4. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    Agree, though Vaguely Noble was beaten 3 times before his Arc victory.
     
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  5. Sir Barney Chuckles

    Sir Barney Chuckles Who Dares Wins

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    Vadeni 'blue' across almost the whole board on Oddschecker at the time of writing. A best priced 22/1 last night he is now a best 14/1. Even as low as single figures in one place.

    Skybet seemingly the biggest contraction - 22/1 down to 10's.
     
    #65
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  6. SwanHills

    SwanHills Well-Known Member

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    Ah, now I see what you mean. Yes, he did lose three races prior to winniing the Arc. He finished second twice as a 2-y-o, then won the last two races, then lost one as a 3-y-o, but won the rest. Even the great Sea-Bird II lost his very first race as a 2-y-o. if my memory serves me correct. Here's some blurb from Wikipedia:

    Racing at age two, Vaguely Noble finished second in his first two races then won his last two, including the Observer Gold Cup by seven lengths, pulling up, to end the 1967 season. In December of that year he was sold at auction by the Estate of Major Lionel B. Holliday, for 136,000 guineas ($342,720), a record price for a racehorse. He was purchased by Albert Yank, acting for Dr and Mrs Franklyn.

    In 1968 he was sent to race in France, where his conditioning was taken over by Etienne Pollet. Vaguely Noble won four of his five starts, including the Prix de Guiche (by 3 lengths), Prix du Lys (by 8 lengths), Prix de Chantilly and France's most prestigious race, the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe at Longchamp, defeating the brilliant Derby winner Sir Ivor.
     
    #66
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  7. Sir Barney Chuckles

    Sir Barney Chuckles Who Dares Wins

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    The 'Racing Post' now reporting that Vadeni is Arc bound rather than going for the Champion Stakes.

    Addressing the sporting world the Aga Khan's racing manager Georges Rimaud revealed, "We have decided that the forecast for France looks better than England and so we will stay here and profit from the dry spell."
     
    #67
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  8. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    He needed it soft. Originally supposed to be sent to Ireland's premier trainer Paddy Prendergast, but wisely sent to France where they loved to water. He was beaten by The Queen's Hopeful Venture as a 3yo. It was that defeat that led to 'Weary' Willy Williamson being reinstated as his jockey (having ridden him in all his 2yo starts)..
     
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  9. Tamerlo

    Tamerlo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but he was a late developer like those other great 4 year olds, Exbury and Busted. That would have been a race worth seeing!
     
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  10. SwanHills

    SwanHills Well-Known Member

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    Bill Williamson won it the following year on Levmoss. Good 'big race' rider. Australia had some very 'smooth-riding' jockeys around that time, among them Jack Purtell who won the Oaks on Long Look in 1965, and Garnet Bougoure who won the Oaks on Noblesse in 1963.
     
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  11. Kawada_Ginger

    Kawada_Ginger New Member

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    I want to know your tip
    Who will win?
     
    #71
  12. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    When Charlie Appleby was interviewed at Newmarket after Eternal Pearl had won, Rishi asked him about plans for Adayar.

    Appleby revealed that the 2021 Derby winner would be left in the Arc at the first forfeit stage and they would be keeping an eye on the weather forecast. We could yet see Adayar defect from the Champion Stakes and head to Longchamp. I am becoming increasingly convinced that he is going to be in the field on October 2nd as it makes the most sense from a racing point of view, although Appleby did imply that the Champion Stakes had originally been mentioned as the target preference because it is a ten furlong race that might enhance his stud value.

    If he were my horse I would be looking at the Arc and then I would be looking at the Breeders’ Cup Turf: he has hardly any miles on the clock having missed most of the campaign due to injury. He is a son of Frankel and that will surely sell him at stud!

    If it stays dry on the Bois de Boulogne, will that see Onesto go to Ascot? The top of the market is still wide open so I think it is too soon to be nailing colours to the mast.
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2022
  13. SwanHills

    SwanHills Well-Known Member

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    It is too early, best to wait for the reasons explained in QuarterMoonII's above comments.
     
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  14. Tamerlo

    Tamerlo Well-Known Member

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    Come on, Swannie. I could swear you fancied the Germanic geegee! Dropped him in the Rhine, by any chance?:emoticon-0105-wink: Inseine !
     
    #74
  15. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    I'm sure you meant imply, and not infer QM: being a man of your calibre.
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2022
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  16. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Ob-viously

    <laugh>

    upload_2022-9-24_23-3-45.png
     
    #76
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  17. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    You are right. I got my contexts wrong. It was me inferring from what he said. What he said implied what I inferred. <doh>

    Bad day all round, Saturday. My two short-priced horses in the two Group 1s ran like drains. Watching my horse at Ripon on Bet365 it was 7/2 favourite in running after a furlong and 17/2 at halfway when his jockey was the first one off the bridle. I could not be bothered with Appleby/Buick in the last at HQ at that point so it bolted up at 100/30. Still well in front on the week thanks to two winners at Beverley on Tuesday on my mate’s birthday p*ss up – perhaps I need to drink something other than tea while I study the form more often. <laugh>

    Amused that ‘a moderator’ (we know who you are) corrected both your post and mine.
     
    #77
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  18. SwanHills

    SwanHills Well-Known Member

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    <laugh> As you gathered, I have been singularly unimpressed with him of late. Frankie or no Frankie! If he wins I guess I'll have to stand outside Munich's City Hall and sing "Any Old Iron"? So be it! They'll soon put me away, can't sing worth a damn.
    (Drop him in the Isar, would be more practical for me)
     
    #78
  19. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Just having a bit of fun QM. Max Wall had me on the floor laughing when I saw him at Brighton Hippodrome as a kid. The way he said "ob-viously" has just stuck for some reason. Couldn't resist
     
    #79
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  20. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    Do not bother lubricating your tonsils. I will go out on a limb (without offering any forfeit) to say that Torquator Tasso will not win back-to-back Arcs.

    I cannot sing either. Being stentorian, I frequently get told to turn it down when sat at a table with a few mates in the pub. <laugh>
     
    #80
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