Plymborn Thanks. That confirms to me that there's no evidence to say payments are overdue. It may well be that what's been paid isn't enough but the club and therefore the administrator are in a very weak negotiating position and I'm afraid that's what you get if you run your operation into the ground like the last lot did. Not enough is not the same as being overdue though. Sensible/Western/Mexijan I understand the anonymity is causing unrest and I understand people are generally restless about the situation - we all are. However, I'm afraid the unrest about the anonymity isn't justifiable given the facts. The consortium will never own the football club. That being the case, they have no responsibility towards the fans. There isn't a cat in hell's chance therefore that they're going to reveal themselves to make a bunch of people they owe nothing to happy and in doing so, throw away whatever commercial or tax advantage they gain by keeping their identities secret. May not be palatable but a fact of life I'm afraid. I'm not seeking to justify what's going on. What worries me is that fans working each other into a lather about something which ultimately isn't relevant to the club undermines support [and finances] just when the club needs it most.
I don't think we were working each other into a lather. The main cause of the unrest is the length of time for which this situation has remained unresolved. You would be right about the identity of the consortium not mattering if they had done the deal and vanished from the scene. Unfortunately, this hasn't happened. The future of our club remains unresolved and this causes everyone to fret. You may have the sange froid to view all this in a detached manner but most of us haven't. You will have to forgive the odd venting of frustration. I think you are being disingenuous regarding the payments. IF the terms of any deal were a million down for exclusivity and £300,000 has been paid, £700,000 is clearly overdue. Now, it may be that this final payment has been postponed on a agreed basis but that calls into question whether the consortium has received preferential treatment not afforded to other bidders. There is something intrinsically amiss with the idea of splitting off the assets and selling the club for £1 - at least in my view. It leaves the club vulnerable in the future and, whatever you say, this mystery men are going to be our landlords. Now that is a fact of life I do find unpalatable!
I wasn't accusing you of working anyone up into a lather but there are a lot of what are no more than rumours being pumped out on a regular basis by others for which I've seen no published evidence. I'll stand corrected if someone can show me something substantive. That leads me directly to what you've said about payments, which are a particularly sore issue after the Kagami saga. Guilfoyle has over the months made various robust statements about what's going to happen when but most of those haven't in fact been proved correct. He's tried to be bullish and I don't blame him for that but the fact of the matter is that he's had a very weak hand to play as far as the club is concerned and the bidders clearly haven't been willing to do HIS bidding as it were. He may have demanded £1m up front for exclusivity or whatever but in the end he's had to accept the best deal on offer in the round - and that's the best deal for creditors NOT the football club, as is his remit. Payments to the club will have been a relatively low priority and he may have had to be flexible on that. As far as I know, nobody knows how the payments were scheduled: perhaps £0.7m is due only on completion. In fact I'm not even certain that a requested total of £1m made it through negotiations into the final agreement. What I do know is that neither Guilfoyle nor Ridsdale have said payments are in arrears. I also know that if fans agitate successfully against the deal that is on the table, stirred up in part by unsubstantiated rumours, then we have to start all over again If that's the case, we start with a very much increased risk that the club will fold even compared to where it stood 6 months ago. I lack sang froid on that. This may not be the deal fans would have liked but it's the one we've got in which the club survives to fight another day.
To late in the day to start again, common sense not the heart needs to rule the day. Guilfoyle is saying the end of the month will see completion.........does that automatically trigger an exclusivity payment,we're led to believe that there should be another £700.000 to go in the kitty........but who knows anymore...........x amount is required each month to pay the wages.......where does that come from if the process starts again..........FL would surely insist that players are paid in August...........the players union would probably get a little shirty............Although Brent seems a good type (how did he get into business being trustworthy) it is now beyond changing bidders at this stage.
Plymborn - you are seriously demented, I run my own company and resent your implication that EVERY business man is untrustworthy!!! I presume that includes Non Distant as well. Don't be so bloody stupid, hiding behind your keyboard is not very valiant is it now? Tell you something, if you ever accused my of that in public, I would successfully sue you hard enough until your nose bled.
Yes I do object to any presumption that all business people are crooks and that there's somehow something wrong with wanting to make money, especially if you are putting your own cash at risk to do it. 99% of the people I've ever worked with have been totally honest professionals who took their legal responsibilities very seriously [provided they can keep up with the deluge of legislation]. In fact they bloody well have to take their legal responsibilities very seriously otherwise the consequences can be draconian. However, I'm not sure Plymborn was being particularly accusatory there. I just wish he wouldn't go on about payments being in default. Unless I missed something, which is always possible, there's no evidence for that.
Every businessman ?............I didnt say that, "every" is your word not mine.............it's refreshing to have someone like Brent trying to get involved in the world of football that was my thought............being interviewed he came over very well.........I'm sorry if you felt slighted,not intended.........just that the football world does seem to attract it's fair share of bad eggs.
All business people are crooks.......not what I said notDistantGreen,.............payments in default.......that will only be if the agreement for exclusivity was for £1 million and on the completion date will it need to be paid..............six weeks exclusivity for only £300.000 does seem a very generous deal.
I will say that football seems to sometimes attract the sly businessman, but in most cases they run the club well and get a fair wage back for their investment while doing so. Gardner at Man Utd ran the club successfully and left with a good payout from the Glazers. The people he brought to Home park (i.e. Todd) were not businessmen as such but small investors/opportunists after the world cup money. After that went south they were not interested in the club any more as there was no profit for them. Businessmen look for the profit because that is what drives their business, in most cases they are determined, hard working people, who would not be found within a hundred miles of a football club (unless they support the team there) as the football world - unless you run a football agent or sports company - is only going to bring you a loss.
Plymborn I didn't say you you said all businessmen were crooks if you look! In fact, I suggested OldNicky was being a bit unfair, at least on this occasion. Hobo You hit the nail on the head there. There aren't many genuine business people who'd touch a football club with a bargepole at present, because wages are so high that there's simply no way to make money. That means football end up with a motley crew who are looking for something else. There are rare & honourable exceptions of course - Dave Whelan, an ex pro player, at Wigan, is the one who who always comes to my mind.
notDistantGreen.............Point taken sorry, just that Brent comes over a bit different and in away refreshing.........that he wants to help.....he knows the city.......he knows Devon......he feels that a successful Argyle is important for the south/west peninsular..........that there can be a knock-on effect........bringing a feel good feeling.........the last three years have brought the opposite results......... and with the rugby club having a bad year as well..........it is a time for a change.
Brent is right, this city seems to be in decline atm with this uncertainty over it's football club and also it's airport. IMO for a city our size we should be at least playing championship football and our airport should be expanding! I hate saying this but Exeter are moving forward whilst we are falling behind. What is happening to our wonderful city that was really going places in the 90s?
There is a world of difference between being crooked and hard nosed which I think is more where plymborn was coming from. I listened to the radio this morning whilst having breakfast and getting ready to go out. They were talking about the Euro zone problems with debt and in particular Greece which is currently the number one problem. The chap on there was saying that there are speculators who are looking to bring the Greece situation crashing down. This presumably means that they have something invested which will drastically go right for them if that happens. I don't understand the what and wherefore of it but presume they have bought certain things which will go up in value if the bottom falls out. I remember the run on sterling some years back and the currency market being volatile. I think the chap is called Sorus or something similar who made an absolute fortune buying and selling currency. Hard nosed is where you look for your profit at any cost and damn the rest. He did nothing illegal but most right thinking people would probably take the more caring view of what happens to ordinary folk when the proverbial hits the fan. You do not necessarily have to be hard nosed to be successful but few make it to the top of the heap by being ultra nice. Well that is my view of business anyway. Given what we know already what would you call Heaney for example. Most right thinking people would call what he did with his property company crooked. However that is because most right thinking people who lead ordinary lives don't understand the laws of it all. As opposed to crooked it was very hard nosed to say the least. He knew he was going to go tits up and did not appear, although that may not be the case of course as I don't know him personally, to care one jot for other businesses in the region who would possibly go under themselves because of his dealings. I think it is that example that leads people to use the "crooked" word.
sensible.........Scrolling through PASOTI earlier on and came across a few Heaney comments............they had been digging into his wobbly financial state,talk of a court case.......check it out. I find the Greece situation a sorry state of affairs............My wife and I have had ten or more holidays over the years on many greek islands. So laid back and friendly,watched many a sunset in a taverna looking out over miles of sandy beach, and many an all day boat trip as well. The islanders of course are a lifetime away from the moneymen of places like Athens,very sad to hear whats happening.
I should qualify my remarks here. I'm talking about proper business people who make things or sell things or provide services for people - generally do something useful. I'm not talking about bankers or currency & commodity speculators. That's a different type of animal altogether. Mind you, much as I too love Greece, I've heard that a very large proportion of the many, many people on the state payroll never actually attend work, if they actually exist at all. Charming as it may be, that isn't a situation which can persist when your currency is driven by an economy like Germany. Apart from the financial mayhem, I'd love Greece to come out of the Euro - just think how cheap the holidays would be....
The trouble is notdistant that most people who don't know business lump ALL business people into the same category as we all do in other circumstances. It's called stereotyping. All footballers are disloyal, all people from Council estates are duckers and divers in the black ecconomy or claim benefits or both. All Bankers are ****ers. etc. etc. etc. They are all business men of one type or another and therefore to get ahead they are seen as mercenary rightly or wrongly. Clearly none of the above are true but it is human nature to lump people into categories and tar them with the worst brush possible. I worked in Local Government for many years. Everytime the Council Tax went up I got comments from people about my massive pay rise and the little I did to earn what I got. I NEVER got a massive pay rise ever. I also never lent on my broom picking my nose and doing nothing either but it didn't stop people lumping all Council workers into one stereotypical pile. It's the way it is and I understood this so never got upset at the remarks. As for Greece well I've never been there. Despite the facts regarding employment and their attendance records, it is not the fault of the masses that Greece is in the state it is. Once again it is the Politicians and that does not give the green light to speculators to try to affect the fall of a Nation for profit.
Funily enough Gat I've just popped over there for a look see as this forum was......erm.....dead. If I was reading one article right it sounds as if the buzz word is that the deal is about to hit the buffers or words to that affect. If that is the case then I sincerely hope that plan B is there and ready to go. If not then perhaps there isn't in fact a god after all. I'm totally confused and at a loss now. There are more twists and turns in this than a maze. It is the not knowing that is the most hurtful. I just wish somebody somewhere could put the whole story down with no frills and we could see exactly where we are or where we are going.
To be honest Sensible I am assuming the rescue bid will come into play, I just don't understand the secrecy surrounding the PB, perhaps its me but if its all above board there is no need for it ...... after watching the match last night if we survive I'm not saying we will win every match but it will be nice passing football to watch. Another thing I dont understand is why has it taken so long .... I am no business man but something hasn't been right from the word go. I went to the meeting at the Guildhall and to be honest the riddler and Gulifoyle were insulting our intelligence, and I wasn't the only one who came out of that meeting thinking heaven help us. I cant pretend I was happy with who was going to buy us mainly because for the past 3 years we have had directors who just saw us as a property development and the new lot seem exactly the same. There are so many unanswered questions, and the fanbase are being slowly alienated by the PB. Rightly or wrongly I know of many people who arn't renewing their season tickets because of who are involved with it. When I said there is a god after all, isnt it better for it to come out now than 6 months down the line and have to go through this all again. Keep the faith we will come through this stronger because of it.
Brendan Guilfoyle is saying the end of the month,and the deal is done...............we havn't got much longer to wait then have we ? We might not like Heaney/Irish Phantoms as the buyers,but if it goes pear shaped now there will be a serious problem or two to face. Lots of new players who will need paying and still in administration, and a FL who control our future regarding us being on the starting line against Shrewsbury to start the season in a fortnights time. Brent would be thrown in the deep end on a very hard learning curve for a non-footballing owner,it's hard to know what is the right thing to hope for.
