Sjp

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Smug in Boots, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    Dunno if anyone can answer this, I'm not an expert on owt much and the stadium situation at Newcastle puzzles me.

    Does the fact that the ground is worthless make a difference to a prospective purchaser?

    West Ham was sold, quite quickly, and it was always obvious they would get a very good price for the land where Upton Park sits.

    SJP is an ugly stadium, despite what the Mags will always say, with limited scope for improvement and would cost the club more to knock down than it's worth if they wanted to move.

    Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against 'traditional' grounds like Villa Park but SJP has no real character, it's like 4 sides of 4 different grounds cobbled together.

    Sunderland built an 'ordinary stadium' for peanuts having sold the Roker Park land for housing. The SOL is at least modern, able to be extended and perfect for concerts etc even if it's a bit 'samey'.

    Just wondering about SJP tbh, I have great memories of going there but wonder if only an 'Ashley' would buy a club with no ground.

    Are the Mags stuck with Ashley in the same way they're stuck with the ground? After all, they could never afford to move, or could they?
     
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  2. CyprusMackem

    CyprusMackem Active Member

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    "Ordinary Stadium"
    Can't have that. Granted from the outside the lower ends look gash but I'll never forget the complete sense of pride I felt for the first game there. The SOL is a fantastic Stadium.
    As for SJP. I was just thinking at the weekend how bloody ugly it is.
    I could be wrong but don't they rent it?
     
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  3. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the SOL will look magnificent on Sunday and I love it personally.
    All I'm saying is that it has yet to develop a true character and looks similar to other modern grounds.
    Roker Park was a wonderful place to be even when it was half empty

    As for SJP, yes it's very ugly although the Mags will defend it simply because it's theirs. If it was ours they'd call it worse than ****e and they know it.

    As I understand, they rent the land from the council so it's not really theirs.

    The cost of demolition would run into multi millions whereas the sale of the 'famous' seats, turnstiles & advertising graphics would only bring in about 250 quid.

    Obviously they can't sell the 'historic gates' that have been there since decades after the won their last trophy.
     
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  4. ronson333

    ronson333 Member

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    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...league-stadiums-for-the-2012-13-season/page/6


    5th) St. James’ Park is one of the largest stadiums due largely in part to Newcastle United's incredibly committed fan base.

    St. James’ Park lays claim to seating some of the most passionate fans and features some of the most heated matches.

    The stadium structure is a tower of interwoven steel and will gain much popularity as one of the football arenas for the 2012 Summer Olympics.

    Newcastle United has some of the most loyal fans, as the Magpies hold one of the highest attendance rates in the league. Fans can always be heard singing their devotion to the team throughout the stands at St. James' Park.

    14th) The Stadium of Light is simple and accommodating.

    The Black Cats play for a crowd of over 49,000 fans.

    The atmosphere is fun and exciting like most matches, but nothing compared to the magnitude of the league’s larger and more popular stadiums which leaves Sunderland's home ground at No. 14 on the list.
     
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  5. haslam

    haslam Well-Known Member

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    Not certain but pretty sure Ashley owns the stadium.

    Two different issues 1) Does the stadium do its job and 2) Is it worth anything

    !) It serves a purpose. Personally I love the location, the fact that it is so close to the city centre and feels a part of the city. This does have major drawbacks though, like the lopsided stands (which I believe are due to conflicts with locals over how high different stands are allowed to be built up). There have been a number of different pushes to get the stadium to a point where all four sides are the same and the capacity up to around 60,000 (which in fairness I think we would only approach filling 5-10 games a season) but Ashley pulled the plug on the last one and has given no indication he would be looked to invest that sort of money in the club. The facilities inside aren't up to the standards of many other top flight clubs, which isn't surprising for a ground which has been there for 130 odd years and merely refurbed intermittently. I love the place but I would say that, it can't be great for away fans given they get put up in the rafters and the unequal stands certainly seems, to me, to affect the atmosphere.

    2) I suspect it would be worth something given how close it is to the city centre but the flip side to that is that I can't imagine normal housing being put there, more like a business park or something. It isn't the best part of Newcastle to be fair but it has good access and isn't bad. I would certainly expect it to be worth more than the cost of pulling it down! Suspect a Sunderland bias in that comment (which is fair enough I guess).`

    One mans 'monstrosity' is another mans 'character' I guess.
     
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  6. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    Do you have an opinion of your own or an answer to the question?
     
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  7. Albert's Chip Shop

    Albert's Chip Shop Bruce OUT
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    please log in to view this image
     
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  8. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure it's worth millions but my question is whether NUFC would get a penny as it's not their land.

    The cost of demolition, which the club would have to pay for, would run into millions before they gave it back to the council.

    As I say I'm not sure this is the case and wondered if anyone knew the real story.
     
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  9. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    I've suspected, for a while, that people with nowt to say and no sense of humour always post off topic & worn out internet clips.

    You confirm it day after day <doh>
     
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  10. Graham Carr's Binoculars

    Graham Carr's Binoculars Well-Known Member

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    Ashley owns it. Meaning it would cost no more to demolish than any other stadium.

    Not that we'd want to demolish it. It's location is unique in the sence that it is part of the city centre and as stated by Haslam it feels like part of the city.

    I like the fact that it's different to other stadiums whether it be due to being older, uglier, different sized stands etc. Whichever way you choose to view it, it's unique from other stadiums.

    Ricoh Arena, King Power Stadium, Cardiff's, Swansea's, Sunderland's and Derby County's grounds etc are all very similar with just different coloured seats. Yeah they may all look nice and modern I won't deny that. It just takes away from the character too much for me.
     
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  11. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    That's the bit I don't understand.

    Surely if Newcastle wanted to move, as they've tried to do, they'd have to give back a piece of flat & tidy land to the council. The cost would be a multi million pound figure.

    If they owned the land they might well be able to offset the demolition cost to the purchaser of the land. In NUFC's case there can be no purchaser because the land is owned by the local taxpayers, in effect.

    If the club were so happy with the ground why did they want to leave?

    And as you're here, would you find SJP 'unique' if it was Sunderland's ground or just an eyesore?
     
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  12. Graham Carr's Binoculars

    Graham Carr's Binoculars Well-Known Member

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    It's a redundant question as the sheer thought of SJP being red and white utterly sickens me and isn't one I can picture. Put it this way, Fratton Park is an old piece of tat but it's one of my favourite grounds. Great atmosphere and has unique compact feel. When watching you feel so close to the pitch it's uncanny.

    I'm just not a fan of the newer stadiums, they do all feel a bit the same even though they do look nice and modern.

    It's like when new housing estates are built and each house is near enough an exact replica. I'd much prefer a Victorian house with a bit of character rather than a brand new, new build. It's just a preference that's all. Nothing personal <ok>

    Regarding the land I just assumed Ashley purchased it when he bought the stadium but couldn't claim that to be gospel in the slightest.
     
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  13. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    As I understand neither Ashley nor any other owner can buy the land as it's council owned and they can't sell.

    Perhaps that's lucky for you with the Cockney barrow-boy owning the club.

    BTW, I've been to Fratton Park recently and it's gone beyond 'character' .... it's a ****hole judging by the away end.
     
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  14. Graham Carr's Binoculars

    Graham Carr's Binoculars Well-Known Member

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    Each to their own but I love it. Quite like Selhurst Park and others of that ilk too.

    Slightly off topic but I hate that so many grounds are having their names changed etc. Doubt I could even name half of the football league stadiums anymore.
     
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  15. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    <laugh> No surprise there, I'm not actually 100% sure what your's is called at the moment.
     
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  16. haslam

    haslam Well-Known Member

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    I used live in Leicester and was there when they went from Filbert Street to the Walkers Bowl and both stadia had something to be said for them but I loved Filbert Street (was a crazy entrance to a stadium, it felt like you were going into a blokes house who just happened to have a football stadium in their back garden).

    Yes I would like it even if it was the Sunderland ground as I think it adds to the character of the game that there is a diversity of stadia in the leagues. I think we would all agree it would be less interesting if every ground looked identical.

    I've nothing against the newer stadia though do wonder how in other countries they seem to be able to build a range of interesting ones for less money than we do in this country. Many of the newer ones seem to be from the same blueprint but in the end its the fans who make the place anyway hence SoL is a better day out than Derby.

    I liked Roker Park though think the move has done you good in the main, I'm not convinced a move would do us any favours. There's no point in us having more than 60k seater unless we somehow become a top 4 club on a consistent basis and that is unlikely to happen in the next decade (if ever!).
    I
    More interesting/likely is the ground moves or even groundshare that is regularly proposed in Liverpool (where I live). I really like Goodison and Anfield but something has to change I reckon.

    ps. Not sure about the ownership of the land. From what I can find its hard to tell if its a long leasehold from the Council (which is pretty much as good as owning the land if the terms are correct - similar to what you have in about 50% of residential property in the country - and meaning they could sell the leasehold for a chunk of money) or a shorter business lease which is worth much less though depending on the number of years left when they go to sell it could cover the costs of destruction of the stadium. I very much doubt it would be a year-to-year rental as that would do neither party any favours (the council want to have a secured income for the land and NUFC need to know they have security of occupation. To be honest the more I think about it the more likely it is to be a long term leasehold as otherwise the investment a football club makes in its stadium would be too much of a risk but THAT IS A GUESS!
     
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  17. Merino's Ballerina Feet

    Merino's Ballerina Feet Well-Known Member

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    Antibes, you really are bad at this wum malarkey.

    Numbers matter as my fellow Toonies have said.

    That's all.
     
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  18. Home_and_Away

    Home_and_Away Well-Known Member

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    In the mid/late 70s my dad used to bet fellow supporters (for beers) on the 'special' that I could name Away grounds... As a 6-10 year old I was a good source of income for him.
    He used to carry the 'Observers Book of Footy Grounds' with him I case of any disagreements..
    Now I'd also struggle to name them..
    I can understand the need for advertising nowadays but why can't it just be.. Filbert Street sponsored by Walkers ??
     
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  19. Graham Carr's Binoculars

    Graham Carr's Binoculars Well-Known Member

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    Given you named the thread "SJP" I'd hazard a guess that you do know it <ok>
     
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  20. Graham Carr's Binoculars

    Graham Carr's Binoculars Well-Known Member

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    100% agree <ok>
     
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